How to correct?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What difference would it make if the coach was telling his partner or his partner was telling the coach? The B/R being half way has nothing to do with the placement of the B/R.

First, it is the PU's call all the way on this. He declared that the ball went out of play and it is he who awards the runners, beginning with R1 and working his way backwards to the B/R. "You, score...You, 3rd base."

Second, His partner got the rule wrong, and he had every right to step in and place the runner at 3rd base where he belonged without any conference. He should just say, "No, that runner gets 3rd base." I agree with what Mike Crowder and mbyron said in their posts.

There are three sides to every story.

He said.

She said.

And, the truth.

What was said isn't the issue here.

It depends where B/R was at TOT.

Sometimes two heads aren't better than one.

Sometimes two umpires aren't enough.

Ask during the game.

Talk about it after the game.

I know how it works.

I am absolutely, definitely, positive, certain,

YOU

WILL

DISAGREE

WITH

ME.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

It depends where B/R was at TOT.

The issue here, though, is that the BU though (and said, out loud, to the coach) that what "depended" was whether the runner was halfway or not.

And we all (hopefully) know better. (At least all of us except the one who claims to work high school yet didn't know you could steal on a strikeout).

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The issue here, though, is that the BU though (and said, out loud, to the coach) that what "depended" was whether the runner was halfway or not.

And we all (hopefully) know better. (At least all of us except the one who claims to work high school yet didn't know you could steal on a strikeout).

I'm not trying to determine which umpire is right, and which is wrong.

PU states he could hear the conversation as he was brushing the plate.

PU only gives a vague bit of the conversation he states he heard.

PU never mentions where B/R was at time of throw.

Were BU, and coach shouting across the field?

Were BU, and coach having a civil discussion?

It appears this game took place in Alabama.

[SAump]

I'm not buying into their conversation. The plate ump should walk away.

I agree w/ those who state PU has "must touch 1B" responsibility on BR's hit to RF in the OP and he should be making both awards. I say that because BU should have touch second responsibility on R1 and following play into 3rd base. PU should know if R1 reached 2nd base before F9 releases the ball toward 3B and should be checking BR "status" at 1B. Those 2 events are right in front of him.

If the base ump awards BR second base because the batter was not half way. I'm looking into the dugout, but I'm not coaching. If that BR stops at 2B and coach buys it and walks away, play ball. I'm going back to the plate as if the BR failed to reach 1B before TOT.

Now if that coach goes out for an explanation. I might offer my advice if asked, but I will not pass the mound to get involved in his discussion. BU is gonna have to ask me for my opinion. The goal is to get it right, without coaching either team.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

I'm not buying into their conversation. The plate ump should walk away.

I agree w/ those who state PU has "must touch 1B" responsibility on BR's hit to RF in the OP and he should be making both awards. I say that because BU should have touch second responsibility on R1 and following play into 3rd base. PU should know if R1 reached 2nd base before F9 releases the ball toward 3B and should be checking BR "status" at 1B. Those 2 events are right in front of him.

If the base ump awards BR second base because the batter was not half way. I'm looking into the dugout, but I'm not coaching. If that BR stops at 2B and coach buys it and walks away, play ball. I'm going back to the plate as if the BR failed to reach 1B before TOT.

Now if that coach goes out for an explanation. I might offer my advice if asked, but I will not pass the mound to get involved in his discussion. BU is gonna have to ask me for my opinion. The goal is to get it right, without coaching either team.

So, you are going to intentionally allow your partner to misapply a rule? It is the PU's call all the way to begin with, and you are going to let the BU award 2nd base due to a cockamamie "half way to second base" misinterpretation?

To quote Tim C. "~sigh~"

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

So, you are going to intentionally allow your partner to misapply a rule? It is the PU's call all the way to begin with, and you are going to let the BU award 2nd base due to a cockamamie "half way to second base" misinterpretation?

To quote Tim C. "~sigh~"

I'm going to mind my own business. He didn't tell me that. He told the coach that. He sold his call, hook line and sinker. I didn't say I would buy it though. The only thing worse than a bad call are two different calls on the same play.

It is a two base award. BR got two bases. I'm going to tell the coach to go to my partner and discuss it. If the coach doesn't know the rule and can't communicate it to my partner. I am not going to rescue the coach. A coach ever tried to use a previous call from the last game to justify why your calls are so bad. Reminds me of my playing days when umpires made the wrong decisions. I didn't run to my manager with the rule book. I saw at least a hAlf dozen misapplications of the rules made by veteran umpires.

If the partner ask me for my opinion, I'm gonna ask him if he saw the BR between the two bases and why he thinks one base, not two is the right award. Then I'm going to tell my partner to go back to that coach and explain his new ruling based on more information from me, his partner.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

I'm going to mind my own business. He didn't tell me that. He told the coach that. He sold his call, hook line and sinker. I didn't say I would buy it though. The only thing worse than a bad call are two different calls on the same play.

It is a two base award. BR got two bases. I'm going to tell the coach to go to my partner and discuss it. If the coach doesn't know the rule and can't communicate it to my partner. I am not going to rescue the coach. A coach ever tried to use a previous call from the last game to justify why your calls are so bad. Reminds me of my playing days when umpires made the wrong decisions. I didn't run to my manager with the rule book. I saw at least a hAlf dozen misapplications of the rules made by veteran umpires.

If the partner ask me for my opinion, I'm gonna ask him if he saw the BR between the two bases and why he thinks one base, not two is the right award. Then I'm going to tell my partner to go back to that coach and explain his new ruling based on more information from me, his partner.

How about if the coach protests the game after his runner isn't awarded third base due to your partner's incompetence? Are you stepping in now? You gonna enjoy coming back to rework the game for FREE? Because that's what's gonna happen. I would much rather get the rule right on the field than come back and do it all over again without pay. We have a lot of coaches out here who have a fairly good working knowledge of the basic rules, and they pretty much know that the runner being "half way" to a base is totally irrelevant when it comes to awarding bases.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by SAump

I agree w/ those who state PU has "must touch 1B" responsibility on BR's hit to RF in the OP and he should be making both awards. I say that because BU should have touch second responsibility on R1 and following play into 3rd base. PU should know if R1 reached 2nd base before F9 releases the ball toward 3B and should be checking BR "status" at 1B. Those 2 events are right in front of him.

Wouldn't the PU be at 3B for the play on R1. Why would he have the touch of the BR at 1B? PU kills the ball, knows where R1 was, knows or finds out from BU where BR was and awards as appropriate.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Wouldn't the PU be at 3B for the play on R1. Why would he have the touch of the BR at 1B? PU kills the ball, knows where R1 was, knows or finds out from BU where BR was and awards as appropriate.

You can beat me up here. I assumed a line drive hit placed runners on or near each advanced base with runners advancing on unexpected miscue, and no possible play at third base with the ball sailing into DBT. I also assumed BU had a great view of 2B and PU had better angle to 1B.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

There are three sides to every story.

He said.

She said.

And, the truth.

What was said isn't the issue here.

It depends where B/R was at TOT.

Sometimes two heads aren't better than one.

Sometimes two umpires aren't enough.

Ask during the game.

Talk about it after the game.

I know how it works.

I am absolutely, definitely, positive, certain,

YOU

WILL

DISAGREE

WITH

ME.

Garsh, you talk purtier than a $20 whoore.

[EsqUmp]

I think that when there is an improper rule interpretation or improper enforcement of a rule, you have to ask yourself, "What if this same play happens the next time I have this team?" Or "What if the same play happens tomorrow when two of my fellow umpires have this team?"

Hopefully you rule correctly the next time. But it is inconsistent with prior rulings. That not only reflects poorly on the individual umpires, the but entire officiating association.

One of our main responsibilities as umpires is to enforce the rules and prevent rule violations or invoke penalties for rule violations.

Here, we are violating our cardinal rule. We are violating the purpose of us being there.

We have to get rule interpretations correct. If the umpire making the incorrect ruling doesn't like that, so be it. We can all make improper interpretations, but shame on us if we neglect or reject a proper ruling.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Garsh, you talk purtier than a $20 whoore.

Garsh, you're good at pointing the finger. You might be purtier if you would just look in the mirror. Know wut I mean, Verne?