How to correct?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Garsh, you talk purtier than a $20 whoore.

Garsh, you're good at pointing the finger. You might be purtier if you would just look in the mirror. Know wut I mean, Verne?

[SAump]

I'm not buying into their conversation. The plate ump should walk away.

I agree w/ those who state PU has "must touch 1B" responsibility on BR's hit to RF in the OP and he should be making both awards. I say that because BU should have touch second responsibility on R1 and following play into 3rd base. PU should know if R1 reached 2nd base before F9 releases the ball toward 3B and should be checking BR "status" at 1B. Those 2 events are right in front of him.

If the base ump awards BR second base because the batter was not half way. I'm looking into the dugout, but I'm not coaching. If that BR stops at 2B and coach buys it and walks away, play ball. I'm going back to the plate as if the BR failed to reach 1B before TOT.

Now if that coach goes out for an explanation. I might offer my advice if asked, but I will not pass the mound to get involved in his discussion. BU is gonna have to ask me for my opinion. The goal is to get it right, without coaching either team.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

I'm not buying into their conversation. The plate ump should walk away.

I agree w/ those who state PU has "must touch 1B" responsibility on BR's hit to RF in the OP and he should be making both awards. I say that because BU should have touch second responsibility on R1 and following play into 3rd base. PU should know if R1 reached 2nd base before F9 releases the ball toward 3B and should be checking BR "status" at 1B. Those 2 events are right in front of him.

If the base ump awards BR second base because the batter was not half way. I'm looking into the dugout, but I'm not coaching. If that BR stops at 2B and coach buys it and walks away, play ball. I'm going back to the plate as if the BR failed to reach 1B before TOT.

Now if that coach goes out for an explanation. I might offer my advice if asked, but I will not pass the mound to get involved in his discussion. BU is gonna have to ask me for my opinion. The goal is to get it right, without coaching either team.

So, you are going to intentionally allow your partner to misapply a rule? It is the PU's call all the way to begin with, and you are going to let the BU award 2nd base due to a cockamamie "half way to second base" misinterpretation?

To quote Tim C. "~sigh~"

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

So, you are going to intentionally allow your partner to misapply a rule? It is the PU's call all the way to begin with, and you are going to let the BU award 2nd base due to a cockamamie "half way to second base" misinterpretation?

To quote Tim C. "~sigh~"

I'm going to mind my own business. He didn't tell me that. He told the coach that. He sold his call, hook line and sinker. I didn't say I would buy it though. The only thing worse than a bad call are two different calls on the same play.

It is a two base award. BR got two bases. I'm going to tell the coach to go to my partner and discuss it. If the coach doesn't know the rule and can't communicate it to my partner. I am not going to rescue the coach. A coach ever tried to use a previous call from the last game to justify why your calls are so bad. Reminds me of my playing days when umpires made the wrong decisions. I didn't run to my manager with the rule book. I saw at least a hAlf dozen misapplications of the rules made by veteran umpires.

If the partner ask me for my opinion, I'm gonna ask him if he saw the BR between the two bases and why he thinks one base, not two is the right award. Then I'm going to tell my partner to go back to that coach and explain his new ruling based on more information from me, his partner.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

I'm going to mind my own business. He didn't tell me that. He told the coach that. He sold his call, hook line and sinker. I didn't say I would buy it though. The only thing worse than a bad call are two different calls on the same play.

It is a two base award. BR got two bases. I'm going to tell the coach to go to my partner and discuss it. If the coach doesn't know the rule and can't communicate it to my partner. I am not going to rescue the coach. A coach ever tried to use a previous call from the last game to justify why your calls are so bad. Reminds me of my playing days when umpires made the wrong decisions. I didn't run to my manager with the rule book. I saw at least a hAlf dozen misapplications of the rules made by veteran umpires.

If the partner ask me for my opinion, I'm gonna ask him if he saw the BR between the two bases and why he thinks one base, not two is the right award. Then I'm going to tell my partner to go back to that coach and explain his new ruling based on more information from me, his partner.

How about if the coach protests the game after his runner isn't awarded third base due to your partner's incompetence? Are you stepping in now? You gonna enjoy coming back to rework the game for FREE? Because that's what's gonna happen. I would much rather get the rule right on the field than come back and do it all over again without pay. We have a lot of coaches out here who have a fairly good working knowledge of the basic rules, and they pretty much know that the runner being "half way" to a base is totally irrelevant when it comes to awarding bases.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

How about if the coach protests the game after his runner isn't awarded third base due to your partner's incompetence? Are you stepping in now? You gonna enjoy coming back to rework the game for FREE? Because that's what's gonna happen. I would much rather get the rule right on the field than come back and do it all over again without pay. We have a lot of coaches out here who have a fairly good working knowledge of the basic rules, and they pretty much know that the runner being "half way" to a base is totally irrelevant when it comes to awarding bases.

Coach, instead of protesting the game, why don't you go convince the BU to overturn his previous call. Are we going to play ball here or continue to whine. I'll go out there with you. Will you give it another try?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by SAump

I agree w/ those who state PU has "must touch 1B" responsibility on BR's hit to RF in the OP and he should be making both awards. I say that because BU should have touch second responsibility on R1 and following play into 3rd base. PU should know if R1 reached 2nd base before F9 releases the ball toward 3B and should be checking BR "status" at 1B. Those 2 events are right in front of him.

Wouldn't the PU be at 3B for the play on R1. Why would he have the touch of the BR at 1B? PU kills the ball, knows where R1 was, knows or finds out from BU where BR was and awards as appropriate.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

How about if the coach protests the game after his runner isn't awarded third base due to your partner's incompetence? Are you stepping in now? You gonna enjoy coming back to rework the game for FREE? Because that's what's gonna happen. I would much rather get the rule right on the field than come back and do it all over again without pay. We have a lot of coaches out here who have a fairly good working knowledge of the basic rules, and they pretty much know that the runner being "half way" to a base is totally irrelevant when it comes to awarding bases.

Wouldn't work here. Protests are not allowed where I live.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

Wouldn't work here. Protests are not allowed where I live.

Well, they are in most areas, including mine.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Wouldn't the PU be at 3B for the play on R1. Why would he have the touch of the BR at 1B? PU kills the ball, knows where R1 was, knows or finds out from BU where BR was and awards as appropriate.

You can beat me up here. I assumed a line drive hit placed runners on or near each advanced base with runners advancing on unexpected miscue, and no possible play at third base with the ball sailing into DBT. I also assumed BU had a great view of 2B and PU had better angle to 1B.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by davelock11

High school varsity game yesterday. Runner on 1st with 1 out. Batter hits one to right-center and fielder bobbles it, then throws in general direction of 3rd base. Ball goes into dugout.

I'm the PU. I kill it when the ball goes into dugout and award R1 home. BU awards the B-R 2nd. The award should be 2 bases from time of throw on throw by outfielder, right? BU explains his call to offensive coach by saying that the B-R wasn't "half-way" to 2nd, so he only gets 2nd. BU never looked at me or asked for help on the call.

Is there any way for me to fix this? If I don't, it makes me look bad. If I do, it makes him look bad. This is my 1st year, so I'm still trying to learn.

Thanks in advance!

SA UMP, here is the OP again, since it has been awhile since we looked at it.

[SAump]

We agree half way to 2nd just doesn't cut it. Perhaps this vet is using a rule of thumb to measure their location from DBT back to TOT. I've seen runners cover 45 to 75 feet in that amount of time.

Where I diverge is why the vet stubbornly refuses to go with any additional info provided. If he is that sure of himself, I can't do a thing to overturn his call.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, they are in most areas, including mine.

I think you might be mistaken in regards to "most areas". The number of states and local regions prohibiting protests has increased significantly in the past ten years. I don't know if it has reached a majority yet, but if not, it's headed that way.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SAump

We agree half way to 2nd just doesn't cut it. Perhaps this vet is using a rule of thumb to measure their location from DBT back to TOT. I've seen runners cover 45 to 75 feet in that amount of time.

Where I diverge is why the vet stubbornly refuses to go with any additional info provided. If he is that sure of himself, I can't do a thing to overturn his call.

It's not his call. As the plate umpire, I'm awarding bases since that's *my* job since I'm killing the ball. If he stops a runner at a base he shouldn't, I'm re-emphasizing the award and telling the runner to go to the next base.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, they are in most areas, including mine.

Define most areas. I thought it was a decision by states that use FED rules to adopt or not adopt this rule.