How to correct?

[archangel]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Nothing good can come from you "sticking your nose" into the call if you are not asked for help. Further more, if the coach comes to you, just direct him back to your partner - it is not your call, it's your partner's call.

Your advice is good, except I can see a coach coming to the PU asking if the lead runner got 2 bases, then shouldnt the BR?

Does the BU award the bases to both runners? If so, then the PU should stay out of it unless asked by partner. But if each umpire is watching a different runner, and each awarding bases, then I Could see the scenario of the PU getting involved....

[Rich]

This is the plate umpire's ball. Why isn't he killing the ball and awarding bases anyway? I know I'm noting the location of the runners at the TOT.

I wouldn't let this one go. No way. I'd go to my partner and we'd talk.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

This is the plate umpire's ball. Why isn't he killing the ball and awarding bases anyway? I know I'm noting the location of the runners at the TOT.

I wouldn't let this one go. No way. I'd go to my partner and we'd talk.

My thought exactly. In my experience, the umpire that kills the ball makes the awards. Plus, as PU and UIC, I'm overriding my BU if he makes an incorrect award.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by yawetag

My thought exactly. In my experience, the umpire that kills the ball makes the awards. Plus, as PU and UIC, I'm overriding my BU if he makes an incorrect award.

Same here, I've always made all of the awards when I've killed the play.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by yawetag

My thought exactly. In my experience, the umpire that kills the ball makes the awards. Plus, as PU and UIC, I'm overriding my BU if he makes an incorrect award.

That's not a duty of a PU/game UIC. You don't get veto power on base awards.

However, IMO, it is your award to make in the first place.

[MikeStrybel]

As a high school umpire, you have an ethical responsibility to ensure that rules are enforced properly. However, I am torn by the arguments here. No one wants a partner to make them look bad and few of us want to be that person. The HS rule book states "no umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked by the one making it". That implies that one should not interject unless asked by the calling umpire or if the coach or captain believes a non-judgement issue is in question.

I encountered this last year during the playoffs. My partner ejected a player for wearing jewelry in the first inning. I rodeo clowned the upset team while my partner went about noting the ejection on his game card. The HC begged me to intercede, so I asked my partner if he warned the individual and he affirmed. I later found out that he had issued a 'warning' while checking helmets and bats pre-game. We all know that this doesn't count so let's not stray from the subject. Had I known the misapplication of the rule at the time I would have had to ask my partner to reconsider the ejection and attempt to put the genie back in the bottle. Yes, it would have been ugly but getting the call right is pretty important to our state association.

Sunny and 60 here today - finally a day without 35 mph winds! We should have a great afternoon DH on tap and I'm looking forward to abandoning multiple layers for a while. Enjoy your games.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by davelock11

High school varsity game yesterday. Runner on 1st with 1 out. Batter hits one to right-center and fielder bobbles it, then throws in general direction of 3rd base. Ball goes into dugout.

I'm the PU. I kill it when the ball goes into dugout and award R1 home. BU awards the B-R 2nd. The award should be 2 bases from time of throw on throw by outfielder, right? BU explains his call to offensive coach by saying that the B-R wasn't "half-way" to 2nd, so he only gets 2nd. BU never looked at me or asked for help on the call.

Is there any way for me to fix this? If I don't, it makes me look bad. If I do, it makes him look bad. This is my 1st year, so I'm still trying to learn.

Thanks in advance!

If you didn't hear all the conversation, perhaps the 3rd base coach was telling your partner the B/R was half way to 2nd when the ball went dead or something like that. If you're not sure, go to your partner to re-affirm what you heard. A little off to the side chit chat can be a valuable experience. I've gone to my partner to make sure I saw what I thought I saw or didn't see. Don't be ashamed to ask for help when needed.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

As a high school umpire, you have an ethical responsibility to ensure that rules are enforced properly. However, I am torn by the arguments here. No one wants a partner to make them look bad and few of us want to be that person. The HS rule book states "no umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked by the one making it". That implies that one should not interject unless asked by the calling umpire or if the coach or captain believes a non-judgement issue is in question.

I encountered this last year during the playoffs. My partner ejected a player for wearing jewelry in the first inning. I rodeo clowned the upset team while my partner went about noting the ejection on his game card. The HC begged me to intercede, so I asked my partner if he warned the individual and he affirmed. I later found out that he had issued a 'warning' while checking helmets and bats pre-game. We all know that this doesn't count so let's not stray from the subject. Had I known the misapplication of the rule at the time I would have had to ask my partner to reconsider the ejection and attempt to put the genie back in the bottle. Yes, it would have been ugly but getting the call right is pretty important to our state association.

Sunny and 60 here today - finally a day without 35 mph winds! We should have a great afternoon DH on tap and I'm looking forward to abandoning multiple layers for a while. Enjoy your games.

I think your partner went OOO. I worked a three day tournament at the same school three days in row. I had to tell one kid from the same team three days in row to remove the jewelry from around his neck while checking the dugout.

I wouldn't look to eject in this situation, especially in a playoff game, unless it was the last resort.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

If you didn't hear all the conversation, perhaps the 3rd base coach was telling your partner the B/R was half way to 2nd when the ball went dead or something like that. If you're not sure, go to your partner to re-affirm what you heard. A little off to the side chit chat can be a valuable experience. I've gone to my partner to make sure I saw what I thought I saw or didn't see. Don't be ashamed to ask for help when needed.

What difference would it make if the coach was telling his partner or his partner was telling the coach? The B/R being half way has nothing to do with the placement of the B/R.

First, it is the PU's call all the way on this. He declared that the ball went out of play and it is he who awards the runners, beginning with R1 and working his way backwards to the B/R. "You, score...You, 3rd base."

Second, His partner got the rule wrong, and he had every right to step in and place the runner at 3rd base where he belonged without any conference. He should just say, "No, that runner gets 3rd base." I agree with what Mike Crowder and mbyron said in their posts.

[thumpferee]

Someone may have said it, but as PU, I can see the whole field and where runners were at the time of the throw. As PU, I'm coming out and awarding bases. And if there was a question about it, best believe I'm going to my P and get some help if I have any doubt.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What difference would it make if the coach was telling his partner or his partner was telling the coach? The B/R being half way has nothing to do with the placement of the B/R.

First, it is the PU's call all the way on this. He declared that the ball went out of play and it is he who awards the runners, beginning with R1 and working his way backwards to the B/R. "You, score...You, 3rd base."

Second, His partner got the rule wrong, and he had every right to step in and place the runner at 3rd base where he belonged without any conference. He should just say, "No, that runner gets 3rd base." I agree with what Mike Crowder and mbyron said in their posts.

There are three sides to every story.

He said.

She said.

And, the truth.

What was said isn't the issue here.

It depends where B/R was at TOT.

Sometimes two heads aren't better than one.

Sometimes two umpires aren't enough.

Ask during the game.

Talk about it after the game.

I know how it works.

I am absolutely, definitely, positive, certain,

YOU

WILL

DISAGREE

WITH

ME.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

It depends where B/R was at TOT.

The issue here, though, is that the BU though (and said, out loud, to the coach) that what "depended" was whether the runner was halfway or not.

And we all (hopefully) know better. (At least all of us except the one who claims to work high school yet didn't know you could steal on a strikeout).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

There are three sides to every story.

He said.

She said.

And, the truth.

What was said isn't the issue here.

It depends where B/R was at TOT.

Sometimes two heads aren't better than one.

Sometimes two umpires aren't enough.

Ask during the game.

Talk about it after the game.

I know how it works.

I am absolutely, definitely, positive, certain,

YOU

WILL

DISAGREE

WITH

ME.

Garsh, you talk purtier than a $20 whoore.

[EsqUmp]

I think that when there is an improper rule interpretation or improper enforcement of a rule, you have to ask yourself, "What if this same play happens the next time I have this team?" Or "What if the same play happens tomorrow when two of my fellow umpires have this team?"

Hopefully you rule correctly the next time. But it is inconsistent with prior rulings. That not only reflects poorly on the individual umpires, the but entire officiating association.

One of our main responsibilities as umpires is to enforce the rules and prevent rule violations or invoke penalties for rule violations.

Here, we are violating our cardinal rule. We are violating the purpose of us being there.

We have to get rule interpretations correct. If the umpire making the incorrect ruling doesn't like that, so be it. We can all make improper interpretations, but shame on us if we neglect or reject a proper ruling.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The issue here, though, is that the BU though (and said, out loud, to the coach) that what "depended" was whether the runner was halfway or not.

And we all (hopefully) know better. (At least all of us except the one who claims to work high school yet didn't know you could steal on a strikeout).

I'm not trying to determine which umpire is right, and which is wrong.

PU states he could hear the conversation as he was brushing the plate.

PU only gives a vague bit of the conversation he states he heard.

PU never mentions where B/R was at time of throw.

Were BU, and coach shouting across the field?

Were BU, and coach having a civil discussion?

It appears this game took place in Alabama.