Rules Question

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by dketter

it was sad that a questionable call really made the difference in the game.

Two things here... one - you'll find that this statement or sentiment really rubs people here the wrong way. I'd refrain going forward or you will deflect conversation from your topic onto ...

Two - It's sad ... and evidence of bad coaching in my opinion ... that in a game where a team allows X number of runs, commits Y errors, gets out Z times, etc --- that the ONE thing that went wrong that can possibly be blamed on someone other than a player is assumed to be the reason for the loss. If you let your team believe that the call caused the loss, you've missed an opportunity to teach a valuable lesson. Just because a particular call came late in a game when the situation was tight doesn't mean all of the other situations in the game where something didn't go perfectly that WERE the fault of the players didn't have a MUCH bigger impact on the result of the game.

[dketter]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

\and evidence of bad coaching in my opinion ... that in a game where a team allows X number of runs, commits Y errors, gets out Z times, etc --- that the ONE thing that went wrong that can possibly be blamed on someone other than a player is assumed to be the reason for the loss.

Really this is evidence of bad coaching to you? Do you know me? Were you there? Do have a clue what I told my players? Has a bad call NEVER made a difference in a close game? REALLY? Whatever...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dketter

Really this is evidence of bad coaching to you? Do you know me? Were you there? Do have a clue what I told my players? Has a bad call NEVER made a difference in a close game? REALLY? Whatever...

I'm guessing R3 eventually scored. How? Was he awarded home?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dketter

Really this is evidence of bad coaching to you? Do you know me? Were you there? Do have a clue what I told my players? Has a bad call NEVER made a difference in a close game? REALLY? Whatever...

There's a difference between "made a difference" and "cost us ... an undefeated season"

At this level (heck, at any level), I doubt this was the only "bad" call made all season.

[DG]

Perfect game ruined by a bad judgement call. Can it be reversed, we know not.

Rule violation sure, it can be protested.

Would I do this if coaching a 10 year old team, not likely, unless it could mean difference between undefeated season or not. Things like that are important to kids if not to umpires. Should coaches teach kids not to be impressed by records, sure, but they are. When do kids learn that coaches will stand up for them?

[johnnyg08]

See if a 10 year old on either team can spell abandonment and then put the kid back on third base and play baseball. No, the UIC doesn't need to know about this...they're kids and they're 10 for crying out loud. This is what's wrong with America today. You'd think the parents were playing? :-)

[DG]

Funny stuff. When my oldest was 18 months he could operate the first TV we ever had that had a remote control before I could. By 10 he, and his 8 year old brother certainly knew what going to the dugout before it was time to do so meant. Spelling not required to understand.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

Funny stuff. When my oldest was 18 months he could operate the first TV we ever had that had a remote control before I could. By 10 he, and his 8 year old brother certainly knew what going to the dugout before it was time to do so meant. Spelling not required to understand.

As if we care.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by dketter

that call cost us at least a tie to an otherwise undefeated season.

Gosh how did the parents sleep that night? I promise you, the 10 yr olds didn't care.

[David B]

Originally Posted by dketter

Really this is evidence of bad coaching to you? Do you know me? Were you there? Do have a clue what I told my players? Has a bad call NEVER made a difference in a close game? REALLY? Whatever...

This might sound harsh, but your statements on this board actually say a LOT about how you coach your players.

You have to understand many here like me have been umpiring this game for 30+ years and I've seen many 10 years old undefeated teams.

Heck we even have a HS team in our state that set the national record for consecutive wins recently; however, in talking with their coach, who is a friend of mine, they became a much better team "AFTER" they lost a game and quit chasing records.

So good calls happen, bad calls happen, undefeated seasons are a dime a dozen. Many of these 10 yr olds will not even be playing ball in HS, so this season will be just another good memory they can talk about with their own kids and grandkids.

Thanks
David

[swkansasref33]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Let's ignore the abandonment rule that cookie mentioned. That rule in and of itself would be the third out, but I have another way to get it.

It's based on one question: Was there at least one member of your team between the foul lines at all times? If so, F5's action of taking the ball and touching the base is an appeal for me, and I'm getting the third out.

Either way, you need to protest. Your protest should include both examples on reasons the third out should have been upheld. The best thing that can happen is you get the win and the umpire learns something.

If the umpire had already declared "Time" before the 3rd baseman picked up the ball and touched 3rd, would that not be an illegal appeal, making the runner automatically safe?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

If the umpire had already declared "Time" before the 3rd baseman picked up the ball and touched 3rd, would that not be an illegal appeal, making the runner automatically safe?

No.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by dketter

Really this is evidence of bad coaching to you? Do you know me? Were you there? Do have a clue what I told my players? Has a bad call NEVER made a difference in a close game? REALLY? Whatever...

Kind of proving my point, really... but I'll play.

Yes, it's EVIDENCE. No, I don't know you - so it's not conclusive (although your reply was more evidence). No, I don't know what you told your players. Do you know what that word ("evidence") means?

I'm not saying a bad call has never made a difference in a close game... but you have completely missed the point... and if this is your general attitude, then I strongly suspect you're teaching your kids about this poorly as well.

Are you really trying to say to us that this ONE single mistaken call by the umpire is the ONLY reason your team lost? Nevermind the 15, 18, 21 ... times your hitters hit into an out. Nevermind the 4, 8, 16, etc times you allowed the other team to get on base, the 2, 4, 8, whatever times you allowed the other team to score.

40-something things didn't go the way you wanted, the way that would have contributed to you winning. ONE of those things was the umpires mistaken call and you blame the loss on that call? To quote you... "Whatever".

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No.

You mean yes. As in "Yes, that would not be an illegal appeal, making the runner automatically safe."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You mean yes. As in "Yes, that would not be an illegal appeal, making the runner automatically safe."

Maybe. Or Maybe Not.