Rules question

[blue]

I had a situation come up yesterday that I could use some clarification on. Rec leagues using ASA rules. Maximum of 6 runs per inning allowed with the league rules. Situation: 5 runs already scored, 2 outs, bases loaded, full count on batter. Nest pitch is ball 4, also a pass ball to the backstop. Both teams treat it as a pass ball with runner on 3rd racing home. I announce "ball four'. Runner scores 6th run with the catcher just retieving the ball. The batter has backed up to clear the plate area. Coaches' from both teams announce "6 runs". I look at batter and again state "ball four". She looks at me, then to her coach who calls her to the dugout. She enters dugout as the defense is clearing the field, so she never did touch first base. My question: Is the batter out as soon as she enters the dugout, nullifyng the 6th run? Or do i wait for the defense to appeal her not touching the base?

I waited for the defense to appeal, which they never did.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by blue

I had a situation come up yesterday that I could use some clarification on. Rec leagues using ASA rules. Maximum of 6 runs per inning allowed with the league rules. Situation: 5 runs already scored, 2 outs, bases loaded, full count on batter. Nest pitch is ball 4, also a pass ball to the backstop. Both teams treat it as a pass ball with runner on 3rd racing home. I announce "ball four'. Runner scores 6th run with the catcher just retieving the ball. The batter has backed up to clear the plate area. Coaches' from both teams announce "6 runs". I look at batter and again state "ball four". She looks at me, then to her coach who calls her to the dugout. She enters dugout as the defense is clearing the field, so she never did touch first base. My question: Is the batter out as soon as she enters the dugout, nullifyng the 6th run? Or do i wait for the defense to appeal her not touching the base?

I waited for the defense to appeal, which they never did.

Looks like an out, not an appeal.
Unless of course, there is also a league rule (anathema) which negates it.

[Skahtboi]

Yep.

[MD Longhorn]

By rule, an out.

By practice, calling this out is only going to get you the OOO reputation. If this is tourney - call the out. However, often fall ball is educational ball, for players and coaches alike. Depending on the tenor of this league, you might, instead, tell the coach between innings that she has to go to first on a walk, or she's out.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

By rule, an out.

By practice, calling this out is only going to get you the OOO reputation. If this is tourney - call the out. However, often fall ball is educational ball, for players and coaches alike. Depending on the tenor of this league, you might, instead, tell the coach between innings that she has to go to first on a walk, or she's out.

If you wait to tell the coach between innings, then you already have the out and it is too late for her action to change that.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

By rule, an out.

By practice, calling this out is only going to get you the OOO reputation. If this is tourney - call the out. However, often fall ball is educational ball, for players and coaches alike. Depending on the tenor of this league, you might, instead, tell the coach between innings that she has to go to first on a walk, or she's out.

By what rule? The league rule for ending an inning with six runs is almost certainly underspecified (is there a league rule that isn't?). So, I think by rule we have an inning that ends when the 6th run scores with no apparent nullifying play available meaning the only appeals I will accept are for a runner that has scored. And I'll defy you to show me in the rule book where it says that's not how you're supposed to handle it. (I realize you can make up your own rule where it wouldn't count, but you don't want to call it that way so why not make up my rule as long as we're making up rules either way.)
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FetishStormX

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

By what rule? The league rule for ending an inning with six runs is almost certainly underspecified (is there a league rule that isn't?). So, I think by rule we have an inning that ends when the 6th run scores with no apparent nullifying play available meaning the only appeals I will accept are for a runner that has scored. And I'll defy you to show me in the rule book where it says that's not how you're supposed to handle it. (I realize you can make up your own rule where it wouldn't count, but you don't want to call it that way so why not make up my rule as long as we're making up rules either way.)

You're kidding, right? The run does not score if the batter-runner is out before reaching first base. The BR was out the moment she entered the dugout, therefore the run doesn't score. I'm not making up a rule here. A rule that says you end at 6 runs doesn't mean you throw out all other rules. (Would you score the 6th run if a runner crossed the plate before BR was thrown out at 1st for the 3rd out? Of course not... this sitch is EXACTLY the same as far as enforcement goes).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

If you wait to tell the coach between innings, then you already have the out and it is too late for her action to change that.

Scott - what I meant was that if this was low-level or a learning league (as a lot of fall ball leagues are), INSTEAD of calling the out, you might be better off just telling the coach that she'd messed up. I'm not saying this applies all the time, or at all ages.

[blue]

It is a learning league for the players and quite a few coaches (and apparently for me). After the inning I did tell the both coach's that the batter should have gone to first base, but, I told them I thought it might be an appeal situation. When I see them this week, I'll let them know it's an out when she enters the dugout, and the 6th run should have come off the board. Thanks for the replies.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You're kidding, right? The run does not score if the batter-runner is out before reaching first base. The BR was out the moment she entered the dugout, therefore the run doesn't score. I'm not making up a rule here. A rule that says you end at 6 runs doesn't mean you throw out all other rules. (Would you score the 6th run if a runner crossed the plate before BR was thrown out at 1st for the 3rd out? Of course not... this sitch is EXACTLY the same as far as enforcement goes).

No I'm not kidding. The league has a rule that says that the inning ends when the sixth run is scored. It doesn't say quite what that means. Consider this:

With no outs and the bases loaded, the BR hits a sac fly for the 6th run. Unfortunately, the runner at third leaves early. The runner scores and everyone runs off the field from the offense. The defense then appeals that the runner at third left early. Yes, he did and is out. Do you then call another runner out to end the inning?

You are making up rules here to deal with the league rule. I say make up good ones if you have to make up rules.
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KIDS PAXIL

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

With no outs and the bases loaded, the BR hits a sac fly for the 6th run. Unfortunately, the runner at third leaves early. The runner scores and everyone runs off the field from the offense. The defense then appeals that the runner at third left early. Yes, he did and is out. Do you then call another runner out to end the inning?

For what? How in the world is this a similar situation. I can't imagine what you're trying to call a 3rd out for, but no, I would not - there's no reason to.

You are making up rules here to deal with the league rule. I say make up good ones if you have to make up rules.

I am not making up any rules. The league has a rule that says the inning is over when the 6th run scores. The 6th run never scored. I've given you the rule that applies. Please tell me why you think that just because the league has a rule about how many runs can score in an inning, you need to throw out the rest of the existing rules. This makes no sense.

It's very simple. A BR who is awarded first base on a base-on-balls is out if she leaves the field of play without going to first. Right? And a run cannot score on a play where the 3rd out is made on a BR before she reaches first. Very simple, and no inventing of rules.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

For what? How in the world is this a similar situation. I can't imagine what you're trying to call a 3rd out for, but no, I would not - there's no reason to.

Sure there is, the runner who is supposed to be on second is in the dugout. What I'm guessing you'd do, though I'd like you to state for certain, is call time and return the runners to base after the appeal? Is that correct?
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LIVE SEX WEBSHOWS

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

Sure there is, the runner who is supposed to be on second is in the dugout. What I'm guessing you'd do, though I'd like you to state for certain, is call time and return the runners to base after the appeal? Is that correct?

Absolutely.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Scott - what I meant was that if this was low-level or a learning league (as a lot of fall ball leagues are), INSTEAD of calling the out, you might be better off just telling the coach that she'd messed up. I'm not saying this applies all the time, or at all ages.

I knew what you MEANT to say, it was just the wording I was having fun with!

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Absolutely.

By what rule?
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Infants prilosec