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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 10:34pm
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Cool Rules Question

I officiated a game last week involving eighth grade
girls. I made a terrible mistake in the first
quarter by reporting the wrong jersey number on a foul, letís say on team A. I reported the foul
on number 23 when in fact it should have been reported as number 28. I did not realize this
until my partner made me aware of the mistake on a timeout, (there were approximately four
dead balls from my initial reporting of this foul until the timeout). I then
reported my error to the score keeper, and ask that it be corrected. The coach on team B was
furious, and stated that the mistake could only be corrected during the first dead ball
after I reported the foul. The change was made in the score book, and I realize that I really
looked like an idiot for making that mistake, but I wanted to know if I also kicked the correction.
I could not find a situation in the rule book. Just wanted to let you know that team B won
by forty two points. Thank you for your input!
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 10:47pm
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This is not a correctable error situation so the number of dead balls between when it happened and when you are trying to fix it is irrelevant...however, if you are 100% certain that you had the wrong number (ie you called the foul on a 5'10" red-head and reported it against a 6'8" african american kid) I would change this...the longer you go the less likely you are going to be to be 100% certain though so I would use caution here..curious how your partner is certain about who a foul was on in area four dead balls ago? If he realized at the time that you were making a mistake why didn't he correct you then? Also to your point about this being a "terrible mistake", take a poll of the people on this board who have made this "terrible mistake" and I'm guessing you'll get somewhere around 100% "yeahs".....BTW gotta love #28!

Last edited by slow whistle; Thu Jan 22, 2009 at 10:51pm.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 10:51pm
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I agree. If you have definite knowledge that you've made an error, you can correct it anytime. This is why we slow down when reporting, and check with the table crew after each quarter.

As for your theory, I say 99%. Nevada hasn't yet.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 11:04pm
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Had it happen just a couple weeks ago...I have a drive from C and a block on the shot attempt...as I come up with the foul I see/hear L come up with a whistle also so I freeze and look to see what he is going to do...he puts his arm down and defers to me since it is in my primary and by the time I look back at the offender there are the "twin towers" standing next to each other talking - both about 6'6" white kids with dark hair and the same build....I was about 94.87% certain that I had the right kid, but fortunately they announced the foul on the PA and right away we have both kids and the coach going "whoa hold on a minute"...so we huddled and L says he is certain that it was #50 on the foul...given the immediate reaction & my partners input I changed my call...don't want it to keep happening obviously, but not the end of the world, move on...
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2009, 09:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANCHMAN View Post
I could not find a situation in the rule book.
NFHS rule 2-11-11--"A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score."
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2009, 09:11am
Ref Ump Welsch
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Question: was there a number 23? was she on the floor at the same time as number 28 when the foul was committed? If answer is yes and yes, then I can see coach's problem with your trying to correct it. If answer was yes and no, then coach can shove it up his you know what.

2-11-11 could apply, because you know you called it on 28, but reported it on 23 and your partner caught it.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2009, 09:54am
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I've done this before, and the unanimous answer I got from local vets was, "Fix it."
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2009, 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANCHMAN View Post
I officiated a game last week involving eighth grade
girls. I made a terrible mistake in the first
quarter by reporting the wrong jersey number on a foul, letís say on team A. I reported the foul
on number 23 when in fact it should have been reported as number 28. I did not realize this
until my partner made me aware of the mistake on a timeout, (there were approximately four
dead balls from my initial reporting of this foul until the timeout). I then
reported my error to the score keeper, and ask that it be corrected. The coach on team B was
furious, and stated that the mistake could only be corrected during the first dead ball
after I reported the foul. The change was made in the score book, and I realize that I really
looked like an idiot for making that mistake, but I wanted to know if I also kicked the correction.
I could not find a situation in the rule book. Just wanted to let you know that team B won
by forty two points. Thank you for your input!

Hmmmmm.....28 huh.....an NBA game?

One of those other rules (I am thinking 3-4-3d) may have been broken somewhere. There are reasons why numbers above five are illegal. These situations, while they happen in Jr. High B-Ball, increase the likelihood for errors.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2009, 03:55pm
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fix it whenever you want. Get it right. everyone has made this error.
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Old Sat Jan 24, 2009, 08:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANCHMAN View Post
I officiated a game last week involving eighth grade
girls. I made a terrible mistake in the first
quarter by reporting the wrong jersey number on a foul, letís say on team A. I reported the foul
on number 23 when in fact it should have been reported as number 28. I did not realize this
until my partner made me aware of the mistake on a timeout, (there were approximately four
dead balls from my initial reporting of this foul until the timeout). I then
reported my error to the score keeper, and ask that it be corrected. The coach on team B was
furious, and stated that the mistake could only be corrected during the first dead ball
after I reported the foul. The change was made in the score book, and I realize that I really
looked like an idiot for making that mistake, but I wanted to know if I also kicked the correction.
I could not find a situation in the rule book. Just wanted to let you know that team B won
by forty two points. Thank you for your input!
Ranch:

That is why I am old school and do the "birddog" and point at the player. The extra half second makes me focus on the number. I'd rather be deliberate/cautious than wrong. Oh yeah, I've probably have reported the wrong number, but I wasn't caught!
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Old Sat Jan 24, 2009, 01:17pm
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As an official scorer, do I have any responsibility here other than recording the number that I'm given? In other words, what if I "know" (or think I know) that I've been given the wrong number? Am I crossing the line in terms of my responsibilities if I ask an official about this?
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Old Sat Jan 24, 2009, 02:21pm
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I wouldn't be afraid to call the official over to verify. They may have something different than you expected, or may have just given the wrong number.

Don't push it, though.
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Old Sat Jan 24, 2009, 02:52pm
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That's good advice. And your point about expecting something, or anticipating what I'm going to be told, is what I try to avoid (though I'm not sure how successful I am). I have enough trouble doing my job without "calling the game" from the table.
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Old Sat Jan 24, 2009, 04:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comical View Post
As an official scorer, do I have any responsibility here other than recording the number that I'm given? In other words, what if I "know" (or think I know) that I've been given the wrong number? Am I crossing the line in terms of my responsibilities if I ask an official about this?
In situations where that's happened to me, I have no problem with the scorer helping me out.
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Old Sun Jan 25, 2009, 09:09am
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
In situations where that's happened to me, I have no problem with the scorer helping me out.
Agreed. I had a game this season where I reported a foul during a fast break, and before we shot FT's the horn buzzed. I went over to the table and the home scorer asked me, "Are you sure #11 committed the foul?"

I said, "I think so, why, is there no #11?" She said, "There's a #11, but are you sure?" Visiting scorer said nothing. I couldn't figure out what she was asking, so I said yes and we went on.

At halftime they told me that everyone at the table saw that I had the wrong player (11 had stepped between the fast breaker and the fouler somehow). I reminded them that they were all officials, and that we needed to get it right. The visiting scorer said that since his book wasn't official, he thought that he wasn't allowed to say anything.
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