Coach handling??

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Kicked call? His perception of my calls is pretty irrelevant.

I'll answer this with a question: If a coach comes out for the fourth time in a game to argue a call, are you giving him the exact same reception and the exact same reaction as the first time?

I go into every game with a clean slate. During the game, I'd be lying if BS like what the OP described doesn't go into my decision later if a coach comes out and is close to getting run -- it may just push him right into the parking lot.

I will answer your question though you avoided mine, even though you now make the coach argumentative. The OP he was not.

1) I don't have coaches come out to argue that many times. I don't encounter coaches who need to but more importantly, my calls have never warranted four different arguments. I am not insinuating that your calls do.

2) Yes, I try to let coaches ask relevant questions on close plays. I have had coaches come out and ask me how I could make that call only to have me explain it and hear that they weren't even looking but need to make a show of it for their team. I have also had to run coaches who pushed the issue, probably more than you think. Coaches aren't my enemy out there and I try hard to eliminate prior encounters from consideration of the new play. If a coach mentions a prior call I know how to handle it.

I long ago posted that I would ignore the coach in the OP. Many others seem to think that is what we should do. I don't ignore something and then bring it up later. That is not 'ignoring'.

I wish you a good season.

[David B]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Kicked call? His perception of my calls is pretty irrelevant.

I'll answer this with a question: If a coach comes out for the fourth time in a game to argue a call, are you giving him the exact same reception and the exact same reaction as the first time?

I go into every game with a clean slate. During the game, I'd be lying if BS like what the OP described doesn't go into my decision later if a coach comes out and is close to getting run -- it may just push him right into the parking lot.

Exactly, the coach cannot have it both ways. Later in the contest, he's already put himself on a short leash for the rest of this contest.

What he does two games later, it all starts over again from page one.

Thanks
David

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I mean this with the utmost respect since I have never seen you work a game. Do you allow a coach to bring up your kicked call from earlier in the contest?

I'll answer the question for you.....

This is a quick exit for a coach and that is because the statement usually begins with "you". Otherwise, he's probably crossed my line and I am not bothering with him any longer.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I will answer your question though you avoided mine, even though you now make the coach argumentative. The OP he was not.

I didn't ignore it. I thought it was a silly question, completely irrelevant to the conversation. A coach doesn't get to revisit history on a call. And a coach doesn't get to act in a questionable way that shows up the umpire and assume that this behavior will be forgotten an inning later.

A coach wouldn't make it out of a dugout 4 times to argue without being ejected, so I guess my question isn't really relevant, either.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I mean this with the utmost respect since I have never seen you work a game. Do you allow a coach to bring up your kicked call from earlier in the contest?

Depends on the coach, how he wishes to discuss it, what has happened between then and now, if the call was truly kicked, or not, an prior history with the coach, or not, etc etc. You have to weigh all the environmentals.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Coaches aren't my enemy out there...

Which statement, as I read this group, may place you in the minority. Coaches are often called crude and irresponsible names..."rats" comes to mind.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I'll answer the question for you.....

This is a quick exit for a coach and that is because the statement usually begins with "you". Otherwise, he's probably crossed my line and I am not bothering with him any longer.

Aw yes, the poisonous, the super-offending, ultrapersonal, vile and vicious "you".

[MikeStrybel]

I appreciate the honesty. I guess some of us simply come from two different schools of umpiring. I'm not bigger than the game and I work to go unnoticed by the players and coaches. I bite when necessary but treat the 'rats' as well as those who heap praise my way. Coaches around here tend to stay in that role for a long time. I've been gone from the States for the past six years and see that many are still calling the shots for their squads. All things being equal, I would rather have a coach respect me for having a short memory and I'll do the same. It's a long season and I don't care to hold grudges. Umpires have no need for more enemies.

I've got a couple more weeks before the season starts around here. Maybe I'll change my mind about those 'rats' yet. To those of you working games right now, I'm pretty envious. Enjoy and be safe.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I'm not bigger than the game and I work to go unnoticed by the players and coaches.

What does "bigger than the game" mean, anyway? How does one go "unnoticed"? I stay out of the way until I need to be in the way. It's up to the coaches to know how to act and understand the meaning of sportsmanship (and the coach in the OP was not acting in a sportsmanlike manner).

When working a D3 college game a few years ago, I ended up ejecting a head coach from the front half of a DH for grandstanding after I walked away from him (without ejecting him and while putting up with too much of his Weaver-like rant) on a fair/foul call on a bounding smash on the third base line that he thought he saw better from the third base coach's box. In the second game, I called a no-brainer obstruction on a rundown and almost had to eject the *other* coach.

The assignor, who is a "don't be noticed" kind of umpire, asked me if I got a good look on the smash down the line (what kind of a question is that -- since the schools here are too cheap to hire 3 umpires he *knows* the look I got -- a step and a look) and also if I could've avoided the controversy on the rundown by simply not making the call. This was also a season where obstruction was covered extensively in the NCAA meeting and was a point of emphasis in the game (after the rule change, which was reversed this season). So the assignor was, essentially, a coward who cared more about getting a phone call from coaches than backing up his umpires who did the right things on the field. After that DH, I decided that I was done at the end of the season working small college baseball. It wasn't worth the 2+ hour drives, the 18-inning DHers for crap money ($185 at the time for a DH) teams that didn't have any pitching (with games that were 17-16 and DHes that ran 5-7 hours), and the Weaver/Martin kind of managers who thought they were bigger than the game (how come coaches aren't accused of being bigger than the game -- I thought the game was about the PLAYERS).

So I'm just a HS umpire now and I'll live vicariously through an umpire I got started in D3 baseball (who didn't need my help, just a connection) who's going to work a regional this year. And the coaches, on average, respect my work -- I'm a full point above average in the HS coach's ratings we have (and I wish we'd get rid of). And, BTW, I did have one of the rare HS ejections in the state last season (quite frankly, when only 12 coaches get ejected in an entire season my first reaction is that umpires are shying away from taking care of business). And now, my favorite quote from a famous Wisconsin umpire:

"One of the really wrong theories about officiating is that a good official is one you never notice. The umpire who made that statement was probably a real poor official who tried to get his paycheck and hide behind his partners and stay out of trouble all his life. Control of the ballgame is the difference between umpires that show up for the players and the managers." - Bruce Froemming

[MikeStrybel]

Rich,
If you do not understand what it means to want to go unnoticed by players and coaches then I can't help you. Froemming's a legend and some of his quotes are among the most memorable in baseball. The one you displayed is just as easily countered by his tasteless reference to a MLB executive as a "dumb Jew *****". Look it up before and see for yourself. His quotes don't carry the same meaning since I first heard that related to a group of us by an ex-MLB umpire. Still, I admire what he did on the field and I hope he gets in the Hall some day. Froemming worked to be noticed and he was.

Bigger than the game means, "Hey look at me." Bruce did this well. Milt Pappas agrees.

Sorry, but I won't take the bait on the matter of ejecting coaches for what they did prior to a contemporary incident. Best of luck this season.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Rich,
If you do not understand what it means to want to go unnoticed by players and coaches then I can't help you. Froemming's a legend and some of his quotes are among the most memorable in baseball. The one you displayed is just as easily countered by his tasteless reference to a MLB executive as a "dumb Jew *****". Look it up before and see for yourself. His quotes don't carry the same meaning since I first heard that related to a group of us by an ex-MLB umpire. Still, I admire what he did on the field and I hope he gets in the Hall some day. Froemming worked to be noticed and he was.

Bigger than the game means, "Hey look at me." Bruce did this well. Milt Pappas agrees.

Sorry, but I won't take the bait on the matter of ejecting coaches for what they did prior to a contemporary incident. Best of luck this season.

In other words, you won't answer a tough question. Probably because you used your real name to register here and don't want to say anything that will annoy an NCAA or IHSA assignor. Too bad - I'd like to actually hear your opinion on whether a coach's behavior earlier in the game changes the relationship between coach and umpire later in the game.

[DG]

Worked a summer college league wood bat DH 3-4 years ago, where I tossed the starting pitcher in the 1st inning for cursing at me over a call on the bases.

At the plate meeting for the 2nd game the coach comes out and before handing me the lineup card says he wants to use the starter from the last game since he was tossed so early. It was a statement, but was really a question. I told him that was last game this is this game and I am certainly over it if he is.

Now this is different situation than a coach being a butt early and continuing ast the game goes on. Personal, profane and prolonged with let you tossed. Prolonged can happen in one discussion, or over time as they add up.

If I toss a coach in first game it has little bearing on the second, from my perspective. But during a game the straws can keep piling up until the camel back can't take it anymore. The coaches and players are not bigger than the game either.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

Worked a summer college league wood bat DH 3-4 years ago, where I tossed the starting pitcher in the 1st inning for cursing at me over a call on the bases.

At the plate meeting for the 2nd game the coach comes out and before handing me the lineup card says he wants to use the starter from the last game since he was tossed so early. It was a statement, but was really a question. I told him that was last game this is this game and I am certainly over it if he is.

Now this is different situation than a coach being a butt early and continuing ast the game goes on. Personal, profane and prolonged with let you tossed. Prolonged can happen in one discussion, or over time as they add up.

If I toss a coach in first game it has little bearing on the second, from my perspective. But during a game the straws can keep piling up until the camel back can't take it anymore. The coaches and players are not bigger than the game either.

And yet you never hear anyone ask a coach if he's bigger than the game -- even in tirades that end up on SportsCenter. And yet we're accused of it if we even try to demand that players and managers respect the game and show proper decorum.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And yet you never hear anyone ask a coach if he's bigger than the game -- even in tirades that end up on SportsCenter. And yet we're accused of it if we even try to demand that players and managers respect the game and show proper decorum.

What they say: "You're trying to be bigger than the game" or "It's all about you, isn't it"

What they mean: you won't let me get away with whatever crap antics I want to without paying the price

Just more ratspeak. I don't worry too much about it, except when I have a murine partner who is afraid of being "bigger than the game."

[DG]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And yet you never hear anyone ask a coach if he's bigger than the game -- even in tirades that end up on SportsCenter. And yet we're accused of it if we even try to demand that players and managers respect the game and show proper decorum.

Exactly. At least Bobby Cox was usually getting ejected to support his players and he knew what he was doing would get him ejected, his players would love him for it, and they would stay in the game.

Earl Weaver was another story...