Coach handling??

[Durham]

Originally Posted by JFlores

So coach stares at my direction and is chirping to his catcher to do a better job so that umpire can do a better job of seeing obvious strike. I look over and say coach that's enough, he responds by saying I'm talking to my catcher and this is not his first rodeo. I called time walk over and say loud enough so only him and I can hear, that's enough another word and he would be restricted.

How would u guys handle?

I think you had the right idea. Don't ignore it because we truly do promote what we allow. I think that at the point where you walked over is where I would have done it different. I would have put up the stop sign and issued the official warning. Don't get into a debate with him about just warning and then let him decide how the situation will end.

He was trying to get your attention and he did. You acknowledged him and gave him an informal warning, follow that up with an official warning and then eject. Remember it isn't personal it is just part of the job. As someone said, you walking over can be perceived one way, so just warn and then be ready to act if need be.

[MrUmpire]

Rich, I've been accused of thinking I was "bigger than the game" twice. Once was when I called a balk on a Syracuse pitcher for a move in the 9th inning that I called a balk on their opponent in the third inning.

The second time was when I called a runner out at the plate on a ball buster suicide squeeze that would have tied the game.

By my experience and that of others, I've come to see that the accusation of being "bigger than the game" usually is made when an umpire does his job during a critical moment of the game.

As for umpires who make that accusation against other umpires....they're usually Smittys or wannabees.

[David B]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Rich, I've been accused of thinking I was "bigger than the game" twice. Once was when I called a balk on a Syracuse pitcher for a move in the 9th inning that I called a balk on their opponent in the third inning.

The second time was when I called a runner out at the plate on a ball buster suicide squeeze that would have tied the game.

By my experience and that of others, I've come to see that the accusation of being "bigger than the game" usually is made when an umpire does his job during a critical moment of the game.

As for umpires who make that accusation against other umpires....they're usually Smittys or wannabees.

Very perceptive IMO. I agree also. The only times I've had that type of stuff thrown my way was when i actually had to make a "big call" usually in a "big game".

Of course, the reason that you are in position to make that "big call" is because you "are" willing to make the right call at the right time, no matter what coaches, assignors, or anyone else wants to say about it

Thanks
David

[ODJ]

O.P.

Did the catcher do a poor job framing/presenting the pitch? Was it in or outside? Did you simply miss the pitch?

[constable]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

My apologies. I don't believe everyone could hear what the coach said, but since I was not there, he may have. I allow coaches to chirp and learned long ago that they have far more invested in the game than I do. While you may have a different definition of rabbit ears, mine works just fine. I don't take issue with things like the one described. It may have been meant for me but the retort he used was enough to indicate how the umpire would look for responding. Ignore it or risk a reputation of looking for fire where there is none.

I once had a coach tell his player to stop complaining because I was the best umpire he would see this year. It meant the same as the coach who complains. I ignore them both, but may smile at one a bit more.

Have a good season.

Most illogical point I've heard by a sports "official" in many years.

I hope you never show up to work a game with me.

[MikeStrybel]

Wow.
I didn't want to be dragged into a big 'indicator' contest. I guess it's time to address a few points.

1) I use my name because I feel no need to hide my opinion. I have never mentioned my experience but I am hardly afraid at upsetting the IHSA or NCAA here. They usually don't worry about umpires who act professionally on the field or in a forum.

2) I have worked with Bob Jenkins and he knows that I am hardly a wannabe or Smitty. Still, I have been called names before and sleep fine at night. I will not reciprocate.

3) I refused to answer the question because you failed to extend the courtesy prior. I believe you were baiting me. If an umpire hangs onto memories of past behavior from a coach or player but won't tolerate the same from them, he is being petty and unprofessional. Until I call a game perfectly, I don't expect them to coach one that way.

4) It is hardly illogical to think a coach has more invested in a game than I do. His emotions are expected, mine aren't. I simply call what I see and enforce the rules. I'm not out there to collect war stories for my fellow umpires to drool over or congratulate me. Chirping doesn't bother me, it's a nuisance to those who cannot ignore it.

5) I don't consider coaches 'rats'. For the past six years I served as the umpire director for Asian baseball. I also coached a national team while abroad. The dynamic between coach/player and umpire is civil and respectful. I learned to appreciate that we each have a job to do and mistakes happen. I feel no need to hold grudges on the field. If a coach or player earns an ejection, I take care of it. For the record, I was ejected from a game as coach while abroad. I base my opinion on experience from both sides of the white lines.

6) It is sad to think that some of you believe this is a contest between us. You are entitled to your opinion about rulings and how you handle coaches. I may choose to handle things differently and hope you can appreciate this response as an attempt to douse the fire. I wish you a good day and a safe season.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'd like to actually hear your opinion on whether a coach's behavior earlier in the game changes the relationship between coach and umpire later in the game.

As you wish.

In the context of this thread, if a coach wishes to have a discussion about a call, prior to that the same coach has been warned or been given his time to make comment, then the relationship has been framed from communicative to combative.

Anything else, I'll be pleased to answer.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Wow.
I figured that someone was just trying to show how tough they were as an umpire and didn't want to be dragged into a big 'indicator' contest.

Most if not all of the forum participants you are ping-ponging with have tens of thousands of posts and years of playing the "forum game". It's a simple one. Take a response, twist the answer to suit their purposes, gang up on the poster en masse, get personal with the comments and insults...wash, rinse, repeat.

It's up to you how you might wish to handle this behavior. I find it best to state my case and move on. When you have the upper hand, why bow down to the miscreants?

Think of it this way. In the movie Jurassic Park, there's a scene
where a researcher sticks her hand in a pile of dinosaur dung, digs around,
and pulls out an undigested berry. I'm sure if I ping-ponged with these participants, I too may discover a berry, but to me, the price is too high.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel
My apologies. I don't believe everyone could hear what the coach said, but since I was not there, he may have. I allow coaches to chirp and learned long ago that they have far more invested in the game than I do. While you may have a different definition of rabbit ears, mine works just fine. I don't take issue with things like the one described. It may have been meant for me but the retort he used was enough to indicate how the umpire would look for responding. Ignore it or risk a reputation of looking for fire where there is none.

I once had a coach tell his player to stop complaining because I was the best umpire he would see this year. It meant the same as the coach who complains. I ignore them both, but may smile at one a bit more.

Have a good season.

Originally Posted by constable

Most illogical point I've heard by a sports "official" in many years.

I see nothing illogical in his post at all. It's his way of handling coaches, if it works for him, what's wrong with that?

I hope you never show up to work a game with me.

Considering the chances are, what, 1 in a zillion, my bet is you're safe. Truthfully, that's the most illogical point I've heard by a sports "official" in many years.

[JFlores]

Originally Posted by ODJ

O.P.

Did the catcher do a poor job framing/presenting the pitch? Was it in or outside? Did you simply miss the pitch?

Left handed batter, outside pitch, catcher did a horrible job of presenting pitch all game, and to be honest I probably did miss it but it makes it much easier to ball when the catcher doesnt help out.

IMHO the coach was one of those that just likes to bark and hear himself talk, during the game he was on the far end of the dugout on his phone. The conduct of his players reflected on him. At the end of the day the game got settled between the lines, the opposing team being down 6-2, came back and won 14-6 behind 5 homeruns.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Most if not all of the forum participants you are ping-ponging with have tens of thousands of posts and years of playing the "forum game". It's a simple one. Take a response, twist the answer to suit their purposes, gang up on the poster en masse, get personal with the comments and insults...wash, rinse, repeat.

It's up to you how you might wish to handle this behavior. I find it best to state my case and move on. When you have the upper hand, why bow down to the miscreants?

Think of it this way. In the movie Jurassic Park, there's a scene
where a researcher sticks her hand in a pile of dinosaur dung, digs around,
and pulls out an undigested berry. I'm sure if I ping-ponged with these participants, I too may discover a berry, but to me, the price is too high.

So, troll, why are you here, then? And who were you before you created this new identity?

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by JFlores

IMHO the coach was one of those that just likes to bark and hear himself talk, during the game he was on the far end of the dugout on his phone. The conduct of his players reflected on him.

This is exactly why the question of how to handle coaches is never black and white. You have to take into consideration all the variables; treating coaches and situations with one broad brush approach is a recipe for disaster. Yet I see it all the time mostly from officials who simply don't have the mental savvy to think on their feet.

Here you have a coach who deserves very little consideration in terms of dicussing your B/S calls. Or much of any call for that matter as he is not only an arse he's teaching arse to his kids.

Cut to the coach who is the exact opposite. Refuses to allow his players to get in your ear and only asks, at the appropriate time and with respect, if you and he can discuss what's going on. Not why you missed the call but what should he and his catcher, in this case, do to to help you in your job.

You see, this coach is getting his point across and enhancing his chances for success and setting a solid, proper example. Let him. He deserves the consideration.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

This is exactly why the question of how to handle coaches is never black and white. You have to take into consideration all the variables; treating coaches and situations with one broad brush approach is a recipe for disaster. Yet I see it all the time mostly from officials who simply don't have the mental savvy to think on their feet.

Here you have a coach who deserves very little consideration in terms of dicussing your B/S calls. Or much of any call for that matter as he is not only an arse he's teaching arse to his kids.

Cut to the coach who is the exact opposite. Refuses to allow his players to get in your ear and only asks, at the appropriate time and with respect, if you and he can discuss what's going on. Not why you missed the call but what should he and his catcher, in this case, do to to help you in your job.

You see, this coach is getting his point across and enhancing his chances for success and setting a solid, proper example. Let him. He deserves the consideration.

Exactly why would you think that coaches are treated with one, broad brush? A coach gets all the respect he returns in every game and every sport I work. If a coach asks a question the right way and actually listens to the answer and I know he doesn't get upset for no good reason then of course I'll listen when he's upset -- he's proven that he's worth listening to and knows how to treat umpires/officials.

Internet posting is very one dimensional -- it's hard to express nuance from a keyboard. There are some absolutes, as far as I'm concerned (my ejection last season was for being called ridiculous after we had interference on an infield fly that resulted in a double play -- no coach is going to stay after calling me a name), but no good umpire/official is going to survive long without having a mouth AND an ear and knowing when to use the right one at the right time.

[JRutledge]

If I have learned anything from this discussion and other discussions, how you handle a coach is personal. I deal with coaches how they deal with me. If they want to be bombastic and embarrass me, they will not be around long. I do not bread my butter by the opinions of any coach. I have worked too many games to realize (especially in baseball) they have very little say in anything I do ultimately. They often get who they get because not everyone can work anywhere and at anytime like other sports.

Work your games, learn from other umpires and do your best. If that is not good enough for coaches, they will not be around long enough for it to matter anyway.

Peace

[Welpe]

I'm surprised it took Fitty this long to return.