Handling the Pitcher

[Cubbies87]

I had this come up on me in a game, and I didn't really know the correct way to handle it.

I'm umping a 13/14 local game alone. Play under FED rules.

Lefty pitcher, with R1. Batter has one foot in box, taking signs from the third base coach. I have my right hand out, making the "stop" sign so the pitcher does not pitch without the batter in the box (is that the correct thing to do?).

The pitcher is set, and is staring directly at first, ignoring home. He starts his motion, swiveling his head towards home after he starts his motion. R1 takes off to steal second. I still have my hand up because the batter is not in the box. F1 stops his motion, turns and throws to F6 in order to get R1 going to 2nd.

I call time. Place R1 back to first (he would have been out at 2nd), tell the pitcher to make sure the batter is set next time.

I didn't feel the pitcher was trying to quick pitch the batter, and I felt he stopped his motion because he saw me with my hand out. After he stopped, he then realized R1 left, so tried to get a moving runner out.

First of all, what is the correct mechanic for letting the pitcher know when he can pitch if the ball was never dead? Also, if the pitcher starts to pitch at a time when he cannot do so, what is the correct mechanic to stop him?

[Rich]

I don't normally put a hand up unless a pitch is imminent in that situation. That way, even though the batter has a foot out of the box, the pitcher can attempt a pick-off or some such other thing.

If the pitcher begins his pitching motion, shut it down if the batter still isn't reasonably set. Don't rule it a quick pitch unless it obviously is. Just reset and go.

If your hand is up, time is out. Nothing can happen. Don't let anything happen.

Rich

[AAUA96]

I also don't put my hand up - for the same reason - so that other plays may happen (pick-off, etc.)

But, if the pitcher comes set without the batter ready to hit (not just in the box - but ready to hit) I call time and tell the pitcher not to come set until the batter is ready. Usually only have to do this once for a pitcher - on rare occassions (with younger players) I have had to do it twice.

Karl

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Cubbies87

I have my right hand out, making the "stop" sign so the pitcher does not pitch without the batter in the box (is that the correct thing to do?).

The pitcher is set, and is staring directly at first, ignoring home. He starts his motion, swiveling his head towards home after he starts his motion. R1 takes off to steal second.

On part I, I agree with the others no need to put hand up unless you think F1 is going to throw home and B1 isn't in the box yet.

On part II, if you have your hand up and ANY "ACTION" starts, IMMEDIATELY call TIME and "Kill" any possible play.
You don't wany fielders chasing runners, runners trying to avoid tags etc. when TIME is OUT.

As a side note make certain batter isn't taking "ALL Day" in getting signs from the coach. You want to keep the game moving.

Pete Booth

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by Cubbies87
First of all, what is the correct mechanic for letting the pitcher know when he can pitch if the ball was never dead? Also, if the pitcher starts to pitch at a time when he cannot do so, what is the correct mechanic to stop him?

1. If you had your hand up in the stop sign then the ball WAS dead. The mechanic to put it back in play is to point to the pitcher - verbalize "Play" only if you've a mind to or the pitcher isn't looking when you point.

2. The correct mechanic to stop a pitcher in the circumstances you describe is to throw BOTH arms up in the double stop sign and yell "Time"! You should also move out from behind the plate at the same time, just in case the pitcher cannot stop his delivery. You don't want to be hit by a wild pitch when you've already surrendered.
   
   Afterward you should both point to the pitcher and verbalize "Play" to put the ball back in play.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[DownTownTonyBrown]

If the PU had not had his hand in the air killing all play. Now it is a live ball - pick-off attempts may be made.

In this situation, the proper call would be balk for beginning his motion and then stopping. Correct?

In OBR it is incumbent upon the pitcher to only pitch when the batter is prepared (8.05f: Penalty is balk)). I don't see a similar rule in FED. Perhaps in FED you just call time and wait for everyone to regroup?

OBR 8.05f
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when

(f) The pitcher delivers the ball to the batter while he is not facing the batter;

[DownTownTonyBrown]

That's not the right rule is it? What am I thinking? Somebody help me out.

[Cubbies87]

Thanks everyone! And for the most part, everyone agreed, so it must be good advice.

[Edited by Cubbies87 on Oct 1st, 2003 at 06:18 PM]

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
If the PU had not had his hand in the air killing all play. Now it is a live ball - pick-off attempts may be made.

In this situation, the proper call would be balk for beginning his motion and then stopping. Correct?

Yes, if the umpire has NOT effectively declared time out - hand up to the pitcher - the ball is live and legal pick off attempts are available. Commencing his motion to pitch, at that time, and failing to deliver the pitch would be a breach of OBR 8.05(a). I don't know the correct FED rule citation but I believe that the ruling is the same.

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
OBR 8.05f
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when

(f) The pitcher delivers the ball to the batter while he is not facing the batter;

...[snip]...

That's not the right rule is it? What am I thinking? Somebody help me out.

Maybe you are thinking about OBR 6.02(b)Comment that says:

If after the pitcher starts the wind-up or comes to a "set position" with a runner on, the pitcher does not go through with the pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from "scratch".

The relevant balk rule under OBR is 8.05(a).

My understanding is that FED treats the situation the same UNLESS the pitcher delivers the pitch anyway. Under FED rules I believe a strike would be called regardless of pitch position. Perhaps one of our members who actually knows FED rules could help you there.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[DownTownTonyBrown]

In OBR, I believe there is a requirement that the pitcher must ensure the batter is appropriately ready to receive the pitch. Where is that rule?

In FED, I do not believe there is such a responsibility on the pitcher (seems reasonable that the pitcher should be responsible but I don't believe there is a specific rule.) In FED it tends, therefore, to be the responsibility of the Plate Umpire to ensure the batter is ready; hold up the no-pitch sign as appropriate or needed for the occasion and then point to the pitcher saying "play."

Am I correct on this difference and where is this rule in OBR?

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
In OBR, I believe there is a requirement that the pitcher must ensure the batter is appropriately ready to receive the pitch. Where is that rule?

OBR 8.05(e) and Comment, OBR 2.00 Illegal Pitch and OBR 2.00 Quick Return Pitch.

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
In FED, I do not believe there is such a responsibility on the pitcher (seems reasonable that the pitcher should be responsible but I don't believe there is a specific rule.) In FED it tends, therefore, to be the responsibility of the Plate Umpire to ensure the batter is ready; hold up the no-pitch sign as appropriate or needed for the occasion and then point to the pitcher saying "play."

Am I correct on this difference and where is this rule in OBR?

Responsibility for NOT delivering a Quick Return Pitch would always lie with the pitcher. The playing rules are meant to be followed by the participants. The umpire is not a participant - he is the arbiter.

The only difference between FED and OBR on this subject is that FED treats any infraction of Rule 6 as an illegal pitch. That covers things that would be a "Don't do that" under OBR or NCAA. I don't have a FED rule book so I can't cite a rule number with any confidence, but I think it is rule 5-1-1k.

FED penalizes the Quick Return Pitch exactly the same as does OBR, except that the ball is immediately dead.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[Steve Emerson]

In FED anytime that U1 has his hand up there is time on the field whether he or U2 has verbalized it. It is quite different from OBR. Steve

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by Steve Emerson
In FED anytime that U1 has his hand up there is time on the field whether he or U2 has verbalized it. It is quite different from OBR. Steve

Steve, do you have a FED rule citation or official interpretation for that?

By "U1" I presume you mean the plate umpire. Most officials I know treat the stop sign exactly the same under OBR as you have outlined here. I don't see the difference, unless of course that treatment is mandated by rule under FED. It isn't under OBR, to the best of my knowledge.

Cheers

[Dave Hensley]

Both OBR and FED rules prohibit the pitcher from making a "quick return" pitch. OBR goes a bit further in that it defines a quick return pitch as one that is made before the batter is reasonably set in the batter's box. FED simply says a pitcher may not make a quick return pitch "in an attempt to catch a batter off balance."

The "one hand up" or "stop sign" signal is considered a call of time in both FED and OBR. In both codes, the ball is either dead or alive. It's never "live except for the 'don't pitch' sign."

[chris s]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

Steve, do you have a FED rule citation or official interpretation for that?

By "U1" I presume you mean the plate umpire. Most officials I know treat the stop sign exactly the same under OBR as you have outlined here. I don't see the difference, unless of course that treatment is mandated by rule under FED. It isn't under OBR, to the best of my knowledge.

Cheers

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Warren, correct me if wrong.....the "stop-sign" is not a mechanic used in OBR, FED has it explicitly worded(as unusally usual). We do use it for the kid games(14u) but I will keep it hot, just for the purpose of a pick play. Hold up F1 from tossing too soon to the dish, but allow a pick. As most kids and kid skippers don't know the stop-sign is in actuality time-out,they just keep on truckin!!! In FED ball, the stop-sign is verbatim deadball sit, I can't quote, 2004 books not here and I toss the oldies cuz it keep changing!! Football season now...you outa come give football a shot....big guys like you always work the middle.....I can see it now....HEY MATE>>>Thats a hold....LOL