Left Early on a Caught Fly

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mike,

From the MLBUM:



The point is, to make a "play" - as the word is used in 7.05(g) - the fielder must already HAVE possession of the ball. Gaining possession of the ball is NEVER a "play" for the purpose of the rule.



Again, as the rule clearly states, a throw by an infielder which is his first play results in a TOP award, not a TOT award.

JM

Honestly, I've never heard anyone ever try to interpret this way. Nevermind that the only runner on the field has, in fact, advanceds a base... this "catching is not a play" is new. Looking forward to the guys who've been here a while to chime in. I admit the wording seems to lead that way ... but you'd think that at least ONCE in all this time, I'd have heard of this interpretation of that rule if that's what we're supposed to call, and I haven't.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Looking forward to the guys who've been here a while to chime in.

:ding: A "catch" is not a "play."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Honestly, I've never heard anyone ever try to interpret this way. Nevermind that the only runner on the field has, in fact, advanceds a base... this "catching is not a play" is new. Looking forward to the guys who've been here a while to chime in. I admit the wording seems to lead that way ... but you'd think that at least ONCE in all this time, I'd have heard of this interpretation of that rule if that's what we're supposed to call, and I haven't.

This is, indeed, the interpretation. A catch is not considered a play or attempted play.

I'm in a meeting so have little time or access to materials, but I'll add to this later if I get a moment. It may be tomorrow.

[UmpJM]

mbcrowder,

There is also this pretty unequivocal statement from the FED rule book (this principle is the same in OBR, NCAA, and FED) under the discussion of the starting point for base awards:

8-4-5 ...For purposes of this rule, the act of fielding is not considered a play. ....

JM

[UmpTTS43]

For what it's worth, the coach of that team is still a turd, I mean idiot.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Runner on first, stealing. Looping liner/low fly ball to F3. R1 keeps going past 2nd as F3 makes a shoestring catch, stumbles - hitting the bag on the way - then fires to third to get the out, throwing it over the fence.

The fact that he was stealing on the "pitch" and simply kept going is where your flaw is in awarding home. At the time of the pitch the R1 only had legally obtained 1B. At the time of the pitch, he had not legally obtained 2B. When F3 caught the ball, the first play by him (since we all agree that the "appeal" was accidental) was his overthrow in attempt to retire R1 at 3B.

On the first play by an infielder, the runner is awarded two bases TOP.

As others have said, JM and TT are correct...or I at least agree with them.

As for my earlier posts, I would've gotten this play correct on the diamond. I had a hard time visualizing the accidental portion until I read further into the thread and as I stated in the other post, I can see the play developing as you describe it as well. As another posted, it really is a HTBT type situation...(for me anyway)

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

The fact that he was stealing on the "pitch" and simply kept going is where your flaw is in awarding home. At the time of the pitch the R1 only had legally obtained 1B. At the time of the pitch, he had not legally obtained 2B. When F3 caught the ball, the first play by him (since we all agree that the "appeal" was accidental) was his overthrow in attempt to retire R1 at 3B.

On the first play by an infielder, the runner is awarded two bases TOP.

As others have said, JM and TT are correct...or I at least agree with them.

As for my earlier posts, I would've gotten this play correct on the diamond. I had a hard time visualizing the accidental portion until I read further into the thread and as I stated in the other post, I can see the play developing as you describe it as well. As another posted, it really is a HTBT type situation...(for me anyway)

Just for clarification. On the above post, I may have quoted it, but it did not orginate from me.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Just for clarification. On the above post, I may have quoted it, but it did not orginate from me.

My mistake, I forgot to edit that part. I'll fix it.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

At the time of the pitch, he had not legally obtained 2B.

On the first play by an infielder, the runner is awarded two bases TOP.

As others have said, JM and TT are correct...or I at least agree with them.

They are correct.

Award runner 3B.

You are not tipping off the defense or offense.

Runner should know he must retreat and touch 2B and 1B.

Defense should know to appeal if runner doesn't do so.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

:ding: A "catch" is not a "play."

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

mbcrowder,

There is also this pretty unequivocal statement from the FED rule book (this principle is the same in OBR, NCAA, and FED) under the discussion of the starting point for base awards:
JM

I'm still not convinced that you can have an out and not have a play. I've always taken "the act of fielding" to refer to fielding a ground ball, not catching a fly ball.

I still maintain that to have an out there must have been a play.

At either rate, the UIC's ruling of award 2nd is still right out.