Missed Base - Homerun

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

In this instance, the "last time by" concept does not apply since there was no effort to touch third at all and is considered a gross miss.

Citation please.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Citation please.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe "gross miss" is a J/R term.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Citation please.

Common sense and a sense of fair play. Plus it violates the spirit of the rule. You cannot cut across the field with no attempt to touch and then be legal on a subsequent touch.

I don't know if "gross miss" is a J/R term or not. When the last time by concept was put into effect, the term gross miss was used to describe situations such as this.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Common sense and a sense of fair play. Plus it violates the spirit of the rule. You cannot cut across the field with no attempt to touch and then be legal on a subsequent touch.

I don't know if "gross miss" is a J/R term or not. When the last time by concept was put into effect, the term gross miss was used to describe situations such as this.

These expressions in my experience accompany somebody making crap up. I don't recollect "gross miss" from J/R. I'll check when I get home, but if anyone knows where that is I'd like to see it.

And nothing about cutting across the diamond violates the "spirit" of "last time by": indeed, in the OP the runner touched the base on his last time by, so he not only observed the spirit but also the letter of the rule. Cutting across the diamond does violate the "spirit" of "every time by," but that's not a rule.

[greymule]

I know I've seen gross miss and would have bet it was from the J/R, but all I see is "complete bypass" and "more than a body length." The BRD also uses those terms. On a quick look, I don't see the play covered in the PBUC.

My 2006 BRD also cites Play 6-4 when apparently they meant Play 5-4, a mistake that creates serious confusion.

From the 2006 BRD "ruling": "'Last time by' applies to situations where the runner could have touched the base but missed it by less than his body's length."

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by greymule

I know I've seen gross miss and would have bet it was from the J/R, but all I see is "complete bypass" and "more than a body length." The BRD also uses those terms. On a quick look, I don't see the play covered in the PBUC.

My 2006 BRD also cites Play 6-4 when apparently they meant Play 5-4, a mistake that creates serious confusion.

From the 2006 BRD "ruling": "'Last time by' applies to situations where the runner could have touched the base but missed it by less than his body's length."

I, too, found "more than a body length" in J/R (ch. 9, sec. 2). As near as I can tell it's one of those things they made up, like "relaxed/unrelaxed." It fills a vacuum and is useful, and in the absence of conflicting authority I'd use it. Still, I'd like to read it somewhere else...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I, too, found "more than a body length" in J/R (ch. 9, sec. 2). As near as I can tell it's one of those things they made up, like "relaxed/unrelaxed." It fills a vacuum and is useful, and in the absence of conflicting authority I'd use it. Still, I'd like to read it somewhere else...

I went to a Gerry Davis clinic many years ago and asked about this. He used the term "gross miss" and indicated that a "gross miss" could not be corrected by "last time by".

I also asked about it at an NCAA clinic. Yeast (who was in charge at the time) indicated that a "gross miss" could be corrected by "last time by" in NCAA.

As far as I can recall, both used that term (with examples).

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by mbyron

These expressions in my experience accompany somebody making crap up. I don't recollect "gross miss" from J/R. I'll check when I get home, but if anyone knows where that is I'd like to see it.

And nothing about cutting across the diamond violates the "spirit" of "last time by": indeed, in the OP the runner touched the base on his last time by, so he not only observed the spirit but also the letter of the rule. Cutting across the diamond does violate the "spirit" of "every time by," but that's not a rule.

Contrary to your belief, it is not terminology in order to make crap up. Since the rule book contains many errors, omissions, and discrepencies, those are the guidelines that are used when determining rule interpretations. You may not like it, but that is the way it is. If you don't believe me, plunk down some cash and attend some higher education concerning baseball.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Contrary to your belief, it is not terminology in order to make crap up. Since the rule book contains many errors, omissions, and discrepencies, those are the guidelines that are used when determining rule interpretations. You may not like it, but that is the way it is. If you don't believe me, plunk down some cash and attend some higher education concerning baseball.

Thanks for the advice, but I don't recall Evans ever using the expression "spirit of the game." Maybe consider practicing what you preach?

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Thanks for the advice, but I don't recall Evans ever using the expression "spirit of the game." Maybe consider practicing what you preach?

You're right. I don't recall him using the expression "spirit of the game" when discussing rules and rule situations. But he did use "spirit of the rule", the same expression I used in my earlier post.

Maybe consider reading correctly before you decide to quote.