Missed Base - Homerun

[UmpTTS43]

In OBR, and FED, when correcting base running errors, bases must be touched in the reverse order. There is a "last time by" concept that says if a base is missed while passing it, that error is corrected if that base is subsequently touched the last time by. In this instance, the "last time by" concept does not apply since there was no effort to touch third at all and is concidered a gross miss. On a dead ball situation, although there are slight differences between FED and OBR, once a runner advances to the next base, that runner cannot legally return to correct a baserunning infraction.

In both instances, a valid appeal would be upheld at second due to the runner not correcting the error before reaching the next base during a dead ball. A valid appeal would also be upheld at third for not correctly running the bases in reverse order. The gross miss nullifies the "last time by" principle.

[txump81]

I agree on the appeals.

Dead Ball situation is different than Live Ball I think. When the ball is dead, A runner can't return to touch a missed base once she has acquired the next base. A runner is considered to have acquired the base once they pass that base even if it is not touched, so once the runner passed 3B the first time, she acquired 3B and could not return to touch 2B. Same thing on the second scenario also.

That's how I would have reasoned and ruled. Enlighten me please.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by txump81

I agree on the appeals.

Dead Ball situation is different than Live Ball I think. When the ball is dead, A runner can't return to touch a missed base once she has acquired the next base. A runner is considered to have acquired the base once they pass that base even if it is not touched, so once the runner passed 3B the first time, she acquired 3B and could not return to touch 2B. Same thing on the second scenario also.

That's how I would have reasoned and ruled. Enlighten me please.

In FED you can't return if you are at/beyond the next base from your last legally touched base at the time the ball went dead.

In OBR you cannot return if you touch the next base beyond where you physically were after the ball went dead.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

In FED you can't return if you are at/beyond the next base from your last legally touched base at the time the ball went dead.

In OBR you cannot return if you touch the next base beyond where you physically were after the ball went dead.

Ball was dead when it left the yard.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by DG

Ball was dead when it left the yard.

I know that.

BUT txump81 said and highlighjted

A runner can't return to touch a missed base once she has acquired the next base.

And that's not necessarily true - so I posted the rules.

[txump81]

So in OBR, the BR in the OP would have to touch 3B then 2B then 3B then HP and she would be OK?

In LL, according to 7.10b, the BR in the OP is just SOL. Once she passed 3B, she can't go back and touch 2B even though she hasn't touched 3B. This looks to be the same in FED rules also.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by txump81

So in OBR, the BR in the OP would have to touch 3B then 2B then 3B then HP and she would be OK?

In LL, according to 7.10b, the BR in the OP is just SOL. Once she passed 3B, she can't go back and touch 2B even though she hasn't touched 3B. This looks to be the same in FED rules also.

Can't go back in either because the runner screwed up in both rule sets..

But there are differences in the rules.

Play - fly ball to deep RF. R1 goes past 2B. Fly ball is caught. F9 throws to 1B to double off R! but the ball goes out of play. At the time it went dead R1 was still past 2B.

In FED he cannot legally return to 1B because he was at/past the next base at the time the ball went dead.

In OBR he can legally return. He would only forfeit the right if he touched 3B after the ball went dead.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by DG

Ball was dead when it left the yard.

I prefer to use the term the ball is on life support since you still can have coaches' interference. I would think the term, end of playing action, would be more appropriate.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I prefer to use the term the ball is on life support since you still can have coaches' interference. I would think the term, end of playing action, would be more appropriate.

Coach interference, on a home run? How you figure? In any event, the correct term is the ball is dead when it leaves the yard.

[SAump]

If she remained in fair territory, I would allow her to correct the base running mistake. If after passing third, she steps into foul territory, I would rule on the missed base appeal.

[txump81]

Originally Posted by DG

Coach interference, on a home run? How you figure? In any event, the correct term is the ball is dead when it leaves the yard.

BR rounds 3B and misses the base, 3BC grabs BR and stops him/her to keep them from reaching the plate.

Coach Interference, BR is out.

It could happen. Anything is possible.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

In this instance, the "last time by" concept does not apply since there was no effort to touch third at all and is considered a gross miss.

Citation please.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Citation please.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe "gross miss" is a J/R term.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Citation please.

Common sense and a sense of fair play. Plus it violates the spirit of the rule. You cannot cut across the field with no attempt to touch and then be legal on a subsequent touch.

I don't know if "gross miss" is a J/R term or not. When the last time by concept was put into effect, the term gross miss was used to describe situations such as this.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Common sense and a sense of fair play. Plus it violates the spirit of the rule. You cannot cut across the field with no attempt to touch and then be legal on a subsequent touch.

I don't know if "gross miss" is a J/R term or not. When the last time by concept was put into effect, the term gross miss was used to describe situations such as this.

These expressions in my experience accompany somebody making crap up. I don't recollect "gross miss" from J/R. I'll check when I get home, but if anyone knows where that is I'd like to see it.

And nothing about cutting across the diamond violates the "spirit" of "last time by": indeed, in the OP the runner touched the base on his last time by, so he not only observed the spirit but also the letter of the rule. Cutting across the diamond does violate the "spirit" of "every time by," but that's not a rule.