Missed base

[Dakota]

This situation was described on the BB board (thanks, David Van Milligen, if you ever wander over here!). With BB & obstruction, you get into type A, type B, yadda yadda. I was wondering what ASA fastpitch rules would be for this. (I have put this into ASA nomenclature & gender, but left it 1st person, even though I did not make this call.)

B1 hits into gap in right center. On her way past 2B, F6 that was covering 2B backs into R1 (BR). Out fielders still chasing down ball. R1 misses 2B because of the obstruction and continues for a stand up triple. I signaled obstruction, apparently no one knew what the signal meant and no one noticed the missed base. If she had not made it to third I would have enforced the obsruction, and put her on third. Being she missed 2nd if some one would have appealed what should I have done?

[Bandit]

Called the runner out for missing the base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

First off, pet peeve: There is no such thing as "ASA Fastpitch Rules"! ASA is a softball organization that does have specific exceptions and modifications for multiple styles, levels and divisions of the game, but ASA does not maintain an exclusive set of rules for the different styles of the game.

Secondly, unless the fielder was totally blocking the base in a manner to prohibit the runner from making contact, the runner is out upon proper appeal.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
First off, pet peeve: There is no such thing as "ASA Fastpitch Rules"! ASA is a softball organization that does have specific exceptions and modifications for multiple styles, levels and divisions of the game, but ASA does not maintain an exclusive set of rules for the different styles of the game.

I wasn't trying to imply there was a rulebook titled Official Rules of Fastpitch (OFR, in the baseball tradition of rulebook acronyms ). It was shorthand, since I think you would be hard pressed to find more than a couple of pages in the entire 20 or so pages of rule 8 of the Official Rules of Softball that do not contain the qualifiers (Fast Pitch Only) or (Slow Pitch Only) or (Co-ed only) or ... etc.

Anyway, to the question at hand,

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
...unless the fielder was totally blocking the base in a manner to prohibit the runner from making contact, the runner is out upon proper appeal.

Regarding the
Official Rules of Softball
Official softball rules adopted, published and distributed by :
THE AMATEUR SOFTBALL ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
THE NATIONAL GOVERNING BODY FOR SOFTBALL
,
it does say that obstruction does not remove the obligation to touch all bases in the proper order, but I was wondering if anyone would have not allowed the appeal on the grounds that the missed base was because of the obstruction.

[Steve M]

Agreed. Runner is out if properly appealed.

[whiskers_ump]

Dakota,
I believe that Rule 8 Sec. 6B pg106 supplies you
with the answere which is, she should have been called
out if a proper appeal is made.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Dakota........

I saw the other thread and the replies.......but ASA 8-6-b does cover this.......

The runner is still obliged to touch all bases.....even in the case of obstruction.

Now if Jim Evans had written the ASA book............

Joel

[IRISHMAFIA]

.[/B][/QUOTE]
I wasn't trying to imply there was a rulebook titled Official Rules of Fastpitch (OFR, in the baseball tradition of rulebook acronyms ). It was shorthand, since I think you would be hard pressed to find more than a couple of pages in the entire 20 or so pages of rule 8 of the Official Rules of Softball that do not contain the qualifiers (Fast Pitch Only) or (Slow Pitch Only) or (Co-ed only) or ... etc..[/B][/QUOTE]


Like I said, it was MY pet peeve. Too many folks believe that FASTPITCH is the only game of softball in town. There are even umpires that don't believe anything other than FP is softball.

BTW, approximately 85% of the ASA rules apply to all levels and types of the game played.

Lighten up yourself d:-)

[Dakota]

Hey, Mike,

I was trying my best to joke around a bit with your pet peeve. That's why all the grins & going WAAAYYY overboard in completely stating the name of the rule book. I hope you took it in the light-hearted way it was intended.

I do take your point, & since I call only call fastpitch, sometimes I need to be reminded of the other side of the house. Like I said, I was just funnin', as the ol' boys used to say where I grew up.

But, really, I appreciate your insights & comments. You have much more experience & knowledge of the game that I & I have learned a lot from your posts and those of the others here.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Dakota,

I understand, but cannot we all have fun here? d:-)

[Rich Ives]

So basically, all the defense has to do to get an out is to physically prevent a runner from touching a base (obstruction) then get the out on appeal because the obstruction didn't remove the runner's responsibility.


Neat. What a great game this softball.

[Dakota]

Rich, notice this: I signaled obstruction, apparently no one knew what the signal meant

Note that this umpire did not declare obstruction, he only signaled it. In softball, he would have signaled delayed dead ball. This can be a non-verbal signal, but many times the umpire will declare obstruction as well. This way the runner will know what has been called without having to keep looking at the umpire.

Also note that none of the players knew what the signal meant.

A knowledgable runner would have known that:

a) she missed the base and was subject to being put out on appeal, and

b) she was protected, in most cases, from the liability to be put out between the two bases since obstruction had been called. She can turn back, touch the base, and then proceed to the next base. If she is tagged out before reaching the base she is protected to, she will be awarded that base.

So, in your scenario, that defensive technique would work as long as you are playing against clueless players.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
So basically, all the defense has to do to get an out is to physically prevent a runner from touching a base (obstruction) then get the out on appeal because the obstruction didn't remove the runner's responsibility.
Neat. What a great game this softball.

That certainly isn't what I stated, nor would have ruled.

If a defender PHYSICALLY prevents the runner from touching a base (i.e. sits or lays on top of the base, pushes the runner away from the base, etc.), I will not penalize the runner for not touching that base.

This is a live ball situation and the runner has a right to attempt to advance as far as they see fit. The runner should not be held to the mercy of an umpire's judgement due to a defender preventing them from touching a base.

As for the runner knowing or seeing the delayed dead ball signal, they don't need to see it or hear a call. They have additional guides on the field that should do that for them in the form of base coaches.

[Norm Cash]

Come on guys! If a fielder "impedes" progress (of course when not in the act of fielding a thrown or batted ball) of a runner it is OBSTRUCTION. If the obstruction takes the runner out of his baseline (the runner's PREFERRED line around the bases) and the runner misses the base because of this obstruction it is nonsense to uphold any appeal for the missed base. To uphold any appeals would turn the basepaths into an obstacle course. I agree that the runner should touch a base if he has a free and clear path and the obstruction occurs far enough away to allow the clear path to AND from the base when the runner is not stopping at that base.



What would prevent a fielder from planting a foot on the inside corner of second base, third base, or even first base on extra base hits? Good coaches teach runners to hit these corners when running the bases.