Missed base - what to do, what to do?

[Linknblue]

ASA slow pitch, adult men (ha!). Batter hits gapper and is heading for 3b. Off line throw in and ball arrives wide of third toward home and about 6' toward 2b. A tag play ensues and I'm blocked out and can't tell if tag was applied or not. I rule "safe" and immediately go to my partener for help on tag. He walks toward me and we meet on 3b side of pitching area. Before I get my question answered he says, "He missed 2b anyway". I cringe at the loudness of his statement and I say, don't care and ask again if there was tag. He says "no" and I walk away and signal again, safe.

Now the pitcher appeals to me that the runner the missed base (everyone in the world heard my partner). I tell him to go to my partner. My partner stands there dumbfounded looking at me. I point to him and tell him it's your call. He stands there looking at me a little longer and finally makes the call and rules runner out.

Of course all heck breaks loose.

My question, since the umpire tipped the defense should this be allowed? I let it stand and just took the heat. This was the same game that I walked off on in my previous post by the way.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

I rule "safe" and immediately go to my partener for help on tag.

Wrong order. This isn't a preliminary call pending additional information. If you had a serious question on the tag/no tag, ask first, then rule. But really, if I assume you were PU, in position at 3B, and your partner was across the diamond....you gotta make this call.


And, yeah, your partner hosed it by speaking out loud on the missed base. He earned every bit of the to-do he got on that one.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LMan

Wrong order. This isn't a preliminary call pending additional information. If you had a serious question on the tag/no tag, ask first, then rule. But really, if I assume you were PU, in position at 3B, and your partner was across the diamond....you gotta make this call.

If he was the PU, I want to know why he was at 3B making the call. This is the BUs call all the way.

And, yeah, your partner hosed it by speaking out loud on the missed base. He earned every bit of the to-do he got on that one.

And this is one the PU can rectify since the umpire's comments obviously placed the runner in jeopardy, should the PU choose to do so

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by LMan

Wrong order. This isn't a preliminary call pending additional information. If you had a serious question on the tag/no tag, ask first, then rule. But really, if I assume you were PU, in position at 3B, and your partner was across the diamond....you gotta make this call.


And, yeah, your partner hosed it by speaking out loud on the missed base. He earned every bit of the to-do he got on that one.

LMan, I have to disagree with you. This is the BU's call all the way, and he has to make a call. There is no reason to believe or expect that PU is any position to give anything more than minimal assistance on BU's call, so there is no valid reason to attempt to pass the call to PU.

Make YOUR call, then go for help if you believe you may not have seen the entire play. In this case, "Safe; no tag"; then go for help to find out if PU had an angle and position to see a tag.

If you turned and pointed to me, I would respond by telling you "Your call!!", and point back.

[snorman75]

OK, yes it is unbelievable your part did not whisper the runner missed 2b, if he even mentions it to you. Which I know I would not, well not until the next inning.

But it happened. Now what.

You should have still got the answer to your tag question at the plate, FIRST. Since it is the primary play. Now knowing that your part just told the world the runner missed 2b, you better call the runner out on the tag. Well let me put that better, your partner is going to call the runner out on a tag.

Why? We have the same outcome (runner is out and no run) and the mistake by the BU telling the other team the runner missed the base is nullified.

But, by how you described the BU and in what he did, I doubt you are going to be able to get that across to him in the 10 sec you have before the Sh#t hits the fan. Plus you better do it so NO one else hears.

Other then that you got to eat the missed base call.

now I got to read your other post.

P.S. did you ever find out if there was a tag?

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Make YOUR call, then go for help if you believe you may not have seen the entire play. In this case, "Safe; no tag"; then go for help to find out if PU had an angle and position to see a tag.

If you turned and pointed to me, I would respond by telling you "Your call!!", and point back.

Why hang your part? They are your only friend. Yes it is their call, but why are you telling everyone in the park that they should have seen it and I am not going to help you?

In this situation you have the batter going all the way around so what are you watching? In the same breath, I do NOT MAKE the call. I get with my part and I tell him what I saw and let him make the call.

But never would I ever hang him out to dry like that. I would rather get together with him and tell him he missed the play by a mile and had to eat it, but no one else would EVER hear it.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by snorman75

Why hang your part? They are your only friend. Yes it is their call, but why are you telling everyone in the park that they should have seen it and I am not going to help you?

In this situation you have the batter going all the way around so what are you watching? In the same breath, I do NOT MAKE the call. I get with my part and I tell him what I saw and let him make the call.

But never would I ever hang him out to dry like that. I would rather get together with him and tell him he missed the play by a mile and had to eat it, but no one else would EVER hear it.

Hang my partner? He is pointing at me to make his call from 60'+ without any possible angle, when he is supposedly taking this runner going all the way around and ending roughly 10' away in supposedly perfect position 90 degrees to the tag, so what was he doing and what is he watching? Who exactly is hanging whom if he points at me then? What possible credibility can the PU have to make the initial call on this play from his position? What could the BU be thinking (other than let him hang with this) by pointing to the PU without making a call?

Make a call; then get together to see what the PU may have seen. Don't pass the buck without realizing YOU are hanging the PU; who might well refuse to bail you out. It isn't his call to make (or eat); it's YOURS. LinknBlue handled his responsibility properly (assuming he was the BU); he made his call, and, knowing he had a bad angle, asked his partner if HE saw a tag.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

LinknBlue handled his responsibility properly (assuming he was the BU);

He said he was PU so he should have let the BU take the call, unless for some reason the BR held up at 2B, which there is no mention of.

ASA says you make the call then ask for help. If I remember correctly, NCAA says you ask for help the second you need it then make the call (examp...pulled foot at 1B, you look at PU and say did she pull her foot, yes says yes then the OUT call.)

[Skahtboi]

You so funny.

[Linknblue]

Just to clear thing up a bit. I was plate umpire, partner was bases. Our agreement at pregame was he'd take 1st and 2nd and I'd take 3b and home. If I got stuck at 3b he'd back me up at home.

From my position on 3b tag play the tag was away from me but my partner, who wasn't moving to cover HP where he was supposed to go was hanging out at 2b.

I call runner safe because I saw no tag. I immediately call time and walk to my partner to ask if he had the angle on tag. I asked him and his response was "he missed 2b anyway". I asked again, trying to ignore his 2b comment to get my answer. He saw no tag he says. I walked away and signaled "safe", no tag hoping like heck no one would appeal 2b missed but NO, didn't work. They appealed to me. I told them to ask my partner. He looked like a deer in headlights and after being asked two or three times he signals "out"

Right about 10 seconds not enough time to process all this and from the sound of it, I should have ruled safe at second instead of letting him rule "out".

Live and learn I guess.

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Hang my partner? He is pointing at me to make his call from 60'+ without any possible angle, when he is supposedly taking this runner going all the way around and ending roughly 10' away in supposedly perfect position 90 degrees to the tag, so what was he doing and what is he watching? Who exactly is hanging whom if he points at me then? What possible credibility can the PU have to make the initial call on this play from his position? What could the BU be thinking (other than let him hang with this) by pointing to the PU without making a call?

Make a call; then get together to see what the PU may have seen. Don't pass the buck without realizing YOU are hanging the PU; who might well refuse to bail you out. It isn't his call to make (or eat); it's YOURS. LinknBlue handled his responsibility properly (assuming he was the BU); he made his call, and, knowing he had a bad angle, asked his partner if HE saw a tag.

I agree, but tell him not the whole stadium. I would never verbalize "your call" when asked for help. To me it says you should have seen it why are you asking for help.

[snorman75]

I say you still need to call the runner out for missing second, back to that. You can not change the call because your part let it slip. The runner still missed the base. Let the BU call them out and get ready to take a beating.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

Just to clear thing up a bit. I was plate umpire, partner was bases. Our agreement at pregame was he'd take 1st and 2nd and I'd take 3b and home. If I got stuck at 3b he'd back me up at home.

Didn't we have a decent thread on this just a while back?

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Didn't we have a decent thread on this just a while back?

Yep...this just verifies why you don't split it up the way they did. Hopefully a valuable lesson was learned.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by snorman75

I say you still need to call the runner out for missing second, back to that. You can not change the call because your part let it slip. The runner still missed the base. Let the BU call them out and get ready to take a beating.

Who is this 'you?' Link aint calling the missed base, because he didn't see it, the BU did. That's HIS call.

..and HIS s**tstorm. The only one taking a beating here on the missed base is the BU...and he earned it.

Umpires own their calls, and defend their own calls.