Homerun, Catch, 2 base award?

[DaveASA/FED]

Ok another post got me thinking about this. So here are some plays

1) Ball hits top rail of fence and goes over fence
2) Ball hits top rail and bounces up and fielder catches ball
3) Ball hits top rail of fence bounces up and hits fielders glove then bounces off glove over fence
4) Ball hits glove then top rail and bounces over fence

What do you have in all these plays?

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Ok another post got me thinking about this. So here are some plays

1) Ball hits top rail of fence and goes over fence
2) Ball hits top rail and bounces up and fielder catches ball
3) Ball hits top rail of fence bounces up and hits fielders glove then bounces off glove over fence
4) Ball hits glove then top rail and bounces over fence

What do you have in all these plays?

1-homerun
2-live ball
3-2 base award
4-4-base award

[MGKBLUE]

Great question, that forced me into the rule book and a contradiction between the NFHS rule book and the case book. It also has made me rethink my prior opinion.

NFHS Rule 8-4-3g: "A fair batted fly ball strikes the foul pole above the fence level or leaves the playing field in fair territory without touching the ground or going through the fence. It shall entitle the batter-runner to a home run."

This rule is worded almost exactly the same in the ASA rule book (8-5-H).

Therefore, in 1, 3 and 4, as the ball did not hit the ground, the ruling should be a home run.

Now the contadiction:

NFHS case 8.4.3 Situation R:

B1 hits a long fly ball to center field. F8 goes back to the fence and leaps in an attempt to make the catch. The fly ball goes past F8, deflects off (b) the top of the fence, strikes the firlder's glove and ricochets over the fence in fair territory. Ruling for (b) A ground rule double is ruled. When the ball richeted off the fence and then off the fielder's glove, it was no longer in flight and caused the hit to be ruled a double.

I could not find a similar case play in the 2007 ASA case book.

However, if in the case play above, the determination is it is a double because the ball was no longer in-flight, which is not mentioned in the rule, then why would it not be a double in all of the cases above as the ball is no longer in-flight after it hits the fence.

OP situation 1 is covered in case play 8.4.3 R (d). Called a home run.

I do agree that in 2, it is a no catch because the ball is no longer in-flight and therefore does not meet the defintion of a catch.

Some food for thought.

[Stu Clary]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

1) Ball hits top rail of fence and goes over fence
2) Ball hits top rail and bounces up and fielder catches ball
3) Ball hits top rail of fence bounces up and hits fielders glove then bounces off glove over fence
4) Ball hits glove then top rail and bounces over fence

What do you have in all these plays?

I have...

1) HR
2) Ball in play
3) and 4) Four base award

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Steve M

1-homerun
2-live ball
3-2 base award
4-4-base award

I agree.

[MGKBLUE]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

I have...

1) HR
2) Ball in play
3) and 4) Four base award

3) is supported by the NFHS case book. (8.4.3 situation R)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

3) is supported by the NFHS case book. (8.4.3 situation R)

That is humorous.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

3) is supported by the NFHS case book. (8.4.3 situation R)

Are you reading the same thing that I am reading here? From the NFHS casebook:

Situation 8:4:3:R: (b) the ball goes past F8 and deflects off the top of the fence, strikes the fielder's glove, and ricochets over the fence in fair territory.

Ruling: (b) a ground rule double is ruled. When the ball ricocheted off the fence and then off the fielder's glove, it was no longer in flight and caused the hit to be ruled a double.

[MGKBLUE]

Sorry.

Meant to say:

3) is not supported by the NFHS case book. (8.4.3 situation R)

The confusion still however remains, between the rule book and the case book.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

I have...

1) HR
2) Ball in play
3) and 4) Four base award

Can you please support your reasoning for number 3 with a rule or a case play?

[Stu Clary]

Now I can, by saying I stand corrected. Like I've posted before, I come here to learn. Thank you.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

Now I can, by saying I stand corrected. Like I've posted before, I come here to learn. Thank you.

That's one of the great things about this site.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

I have...

1) HR
2) Ball in play
3) and 4) Four base award

I agree, with the further clarification in #2 that it's not a catch and BR is not out (which I believe is what Stu meant).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I agree, with the further clarification in #2 that it's not a catch and BR is not out (which I believe is what Stu meant).

Is #2 the only one to which you are referring?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Is #2 the only one to which you are referring?

Yes, I was only clarifying Stu's response to #2. This is not a caught out, the BR is not out, and the ball is live.