Gerry Davis Crew get its right!

[Kevin Finnerty]

I guess Gorman pumping the out three times before Rollins touched the bag is not enough for some. Maybe if he jumped up and down?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Not the 1B ump responsibilty to see if it was trapped or caught.

No, but he should know the status of the ball. If he did, he would not have called Cano safe.

As others have said, Gorman sold the crap out of the catch. If the ball had been trapped, I'm sure he would have given a safe (no-catch) signal followed by an out on the force.

I think U1's call on Cano may have confused Matsui into believing he was no longer entitled to 1st base, and he was out on a force at 2nd. I'm not trying to excuse his poor baserunning, but I don't think it was a good job by U1. He should have known it was a caught fly. He has to watch the play at 1st, but Gorman's catch call was well before anything was happening at 1st base (watch the ball, glance at the runners).

I also agree with Pete - why did it take so long? Unless they were considering putting Matsui on 1st because his confusion resulted from U1's call on Cano.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

I don't know how you would say that. I think his assessment is pretty accurate, other than wanting a quicker call.

It's pretty obvious to me that you judge rather quickly.

Let's see here...I made a statement that is very similar to the following statement, but you chose only to comment about what I said, and gave jicecone a pass. What's up with that?

Originally Posted by jicecone

Its obvious you have spent little time umpiring or playing this game because people do not react as fast as you think. Could have, would have, and should have is only realty when being an armchair umpire.

Sounds like he said the same thing, only in a nicer way. Calling it "imperfect umpiring" gave me insight into his umpiring ability and/or experience, that's how I could say what I did, and I stand behind what I said.

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

What was he looking at then? If he would have read the play and his partner, he could have gotten into position for a possible appeal play if there had been one. There should have been a no call on Cano. Since he made a call on Cano, I believe that's why the meeting took a bit longer than usual. The question of "where do we put Matsui?" It was obvious to me that U2 made a call on the catch versus the front end of the double play. Maybe it wasn't as obvious 90 ft away to U1. Since he wasn't looking at the catch, I wonder what his reaction would have been if the SS threw directly to F3 in order to double up Matsui? I would think it would be better to react to the play and your partner rather than the players.

I think Umpmazza meant to say "shouldn't have signaled safe." Probably an error of omission rather than commission.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by kape

I agree that it was technically the right call, but it was still imperfect umpiring. The second base umpire signaled out before the shortstop tagged second, but a much quicker out call on the line drive would have avoided the confusion for the base runner.

The first base umpire called Cano safe (when he was already out), so he added to the confusion. I suppose if Matsui had gone back safely to first and then walked off because of the safe call, the umpires would have put him back on first base after their huddle.

Matsui should have been alert and seen the line drive being caught and gone back to first, but this was not a play for which to pat the umpires on the back.

It's pretty obvious to me that you don't know jacksh*t about umpiring.

[jicecone]

I am not so sure 1B ump saw a clean catch, and thenwhen SS goes over to 2nd and then throws, well that could have put more doubt into his mind. I just not ready to throw him under the bus for the safe call.

Without a doubt though I agree, way too much time to discuss a somewhat routine play.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It's pretty obvious to me that you don't know jacksh*t about umpiring.

I don't know how you would say that. I think his assessment is pretty accurate, other than wanting a quicker call.

It's pretty obvious to me that you judge rather quickly.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by kape

I agree that it was technically the right call, but it was still imperfect umpiring. The second base umpire signaled out before the shortstop tagged second, but a much quicker out call on the line drive would have avoided the confusion for the base runner.

The first base umpire called Cano safe (when he was already out), so he added to the confusion. I suppose if Matsui had gone back safely to first and then walked off because of the safe call, the umpires would have put him back on first base after their huddle.

Matsui should have been alert and seen the line drive being caught and gone back to first, but this was not a play for which to pat the umpires on the back.

it was a pop fly/line drive.. what in the heck do you mean a quicker signal.. as soon as it happen he signal like 8 times.. watch the guy dude. the 1b umpire wasnt looking at the catch...and he should have signal safe.. then thats was they got together.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

the 1b umpire wasnt looking at the catch...and he should have signal safe.. then thats was they got together.

What was he looking at then? If he would have read the play and his partner, he could have gotten into position for a possible appeal play if there had been one. There should have been a no call on Cano. Since he made a call on Cano, I believe that's why the meeting took a bit longer than usual. The question of "where do we put Matsui?" It was obvious to me that U2 made a call on the catch versus the front end of the double play. Maybe it wasn't as obvious 90 ft away to U1. Since he wasn't looking at the catch, I wonder what his reaction would have been if the SS threw directly to F3 in order to double up Matsui? I would think it would be better to react to the play and your partner rather than the players.

[PeteBooth]

That is THEIR job and the call was NOT that difficult. IMO, there was no NEED for a huddle.

What we do not know is if U2 said "We have a catch" , "we have a catch" on the INITIAL play by Rollins. I saw U2 signal the out but you couldn't tell if he signalled the out because Rollins touched the bag or on the catch.

IMO, the "huddle" took too long.

After the play, U2 should have simply said I had an out on the catch. Then U1 would say I have out on the tag of Matsui by Howard. This should have taken all of say 30 seconds yet they huddled for some time.

They are the BEST of the BEST and IMO, the call was NOT that difficult. Yes they got it right but it should not have taken so long. Also, an easy explanation to the coaches.

So while you say nicely done That is their job. We all have jobs and we are paid to perform them. IMO, no different here.

Pete Booth

[TonyT]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

That is THEIR job and the call was NOT that difficult. IMO, there was no NEED for a huddle.

What we do not know is if U2 said "We have a catch" , "we have a catch" on the INITIAL play by Rollins. I saw U2 signal the out but you couldn't tell if he signalled the out because Rollins touched the bag or on the catch.

IMO, the "huddle" took too long.

After the play, U2 should have simply said I had an out on the catch. Then U1 would say I have out on the tag of Matsui by Howard. This should have taken all of say 30 seconds yet they huddled for some time.

They are the BEST of the BEST and IMO, the call was NOT that difficult. Yes they got it right but it should not have taken so long. Also, an easy explanation to the coaches.

So while you say nicely done That is their job. We all have jobs and we are paid to perform them. IMO, no different here.

Pete Booth

No need for a summit meeting. OMG they about blew that call also. The umpiring in the post season has been a big joke and embarassing for MLB.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by TonyT

No need for a summit meeting. OMG they about blew that call also. The umpiring in the post season has been a big joke and embarassing for MLB.

Hey Tony,

Shake yourself man. It is a freaking game, and aside from one guy falling victim to bad base running at 3rd base that caused him to have a brain fart it has been pretty damn good. The catch/nocatch at first base was a tough angle for any of us. Do you know who is responsible for that call in a 6 man and do you know where he was standing? As for the play at first base last night, do you understand the angle that the guy had and the physics of that play? That was a whacker at full speed and could have gone either way. I think that the big league guys working to get so far in to see "open glove" may have pulled U1 a little to far in to see the foot hit the bag, but either way it was close, I mean in super slow the ball was 4-6 inches from being in the pocket of the glove. I guess the MLB should hire you ehhhh?

[buckyswider]

Hey Durham, what's that "open glove" thing you mentioned? I've been out of the loop for a couple years, admitedlly. Reason I ask is I've been all over the 1B ump in the WS last year (can't remember who) who kicked the call at 1B on the great diving play and glove-hand flip by Jamie Moyer. 1B ump was obviously was to close and listening for the thud, and of course that was rather silent. I've been miffed not because he missed a call (poop happens to the best) but because I thought he got way too close. So that may have been proper "new" mechanics???

[Durham]

The way it was explained to me is that they want to get an angle that allows them to see the ball enter the open glove. Not just the 90 degrees that is taught at umpire school, but actually see the ball enter the glove. That way they are sure they have a catch and not something else. Remember the play at the CWS where U1 didn't see what everyone else saw on the ball be bobbled and trapped on the opposite side of the fielder away from U1. He called the runner out when every replay showed what U1 could never see from where he was even though he had a good angle on the play and the throw, but they way it got caught at the bag blocked him out. Also watch how MLB guys go out on balls now. They go out and develop an angle that will allow them to see he ball enter the glove, the work very hard to get where they need to be to see the ball go into the glove. Hence "open glove"!
ome good friends that are AAA sups and guys that I work with in the PCL have done the best they can to explain to me, but I wasn't in spring when they went over it there.

Ask your self this. Ever wonder why on a ball to 2nd we take a step or two off the line inside and the MLB guys go way in and look like they are gonna get hit in the back of the head on TV some times?

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

Just had a double play in the World Series...lots of confusion around second base (catch/no catch) and then a tag out at first.....Confusion...huddle, and then the right call by the Crew....Nicely done by Davis and Crew!

what i dont get is where you have confusion.. Brian Gorman right way was given the signal for a out.. like 8 times he gave.. Sold that call for me.