Earrings and a ponytail.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by zm1283

You've never lived in the Midwest, have you?

Yes, I've lived in KC, Illinois, and 10 years in Texas, but we're a big Republican stronghold in a sea of liberalism which is California. We are a military city and damn proud of them.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The fact that he said that is it rather obvious he has not.

Peace

Shows how little you really know, I guess. You presume way too many things.

[jwwashburn]

Tim, well said!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I guess you missed the sarcasm.

Are you sure?

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Shows how little you really know, I guess. You presume way too many things.

Now who is getting all huffy and puffy?

Honestly I have been to your town and it is nothing like many little towns in the Midwest. Not even close when it comes to conservatism and attitudes about differences. Then again, you have a right to your opinion. It does not change my position and the reality of the situation.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Joe and Tim C:

So I suppose this guy wouldn't live up to your standards either, huh?



Looks can be very deceiving. Don't judge a book by it's cover.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now who is getting all huffy and puffy?

Honestly I have been to your town and it is nothing like many little towns in the Midwest. Not even close when it comes to conservatism and attitudes about differences. Then again, you have a right to your opinion. It does not change my position and the reality of the situation.

Peace

I've been to many little hick towns in the midwest, and conservatives are conservatives, regardless of their surroundings. And the reality is that San Diego is one of the biggest military cities in the United States, which makes it mighty conservative by default.

[jicecone]

Tim , you are absolutly right about your opinion, and I believe that body art is just as much a distraction as a pony tail but, as you said we are both entitled to those opinions.

The point here is, just as we perceive the ability of an official by their appearance (and it definitely happens), we perceive others by what they say and do.

"Goof, dumb, idiot, moron, critical of every one," well my peception of that person is a someone that feels as though riducule of others is necessary for them to be noticed. Someone looking for attention at the expense of others. Someone that thinks with their mouth rather than their brain when out on the field, A hothead, a cowboy. My perceptions may be totally wrong but, as we agree, I am entitled to them.

Given my choice , I probably rather work with the pony tailed official.

And the fact that he doesn't get the bible reference, just reinforces my perception of him.

Am I being critical of him, yep but, I have a right to my opinion.

[jwwashburn]

Oh good grief. Oh GOOD GRIEF.

First of all, we do know that Christ had a beard. We do not know whether he had long hair although there are indications that he did because there are indications that it was common then. It is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

The issue at hand is what is the proper appearance for an umpire. Some of us think that earrings and a ponytail are improper.

Most all of us think that sweat stained, nasty looking hats are improper. There are a LOT of umpires out there who think that sweat stained hats and wrinkled pants look just fine.

My guess is that most people here disagree with me on gray ball bags-i like them doggone it and I know that I am in the minority of people that actually consider such things.

I would like to know where my mohawk guy that I posted would wear his hat, though.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I've been to many little hick towns in the midwest, and conservatives are conservatives, regardless of their surroundings. And the reality is that San Diego is one of the biggest military cities in the United States, which makes it mighty conservative by default.

I know a lot of people in the military and they are not always that conservative. That being said I am sure you are right to some extent, but to say it is the most conservative when people in many parts of the Midwest never see anyone but them in a diversity way, I would challenge your claim on so many fronts. That all being said, wearing a ponytail for a local league is not the same as working a full college schedule as an umpire. The standards are not quite the same and I am sure many of us here are blowing out of proportion what someone looks like based on a very narrow standard. A local youth league needs a body; they are not worried about what they completely look like if they have fewer choices. I know they are not going to get a lot of top umpires or multi-sport officials that are successful as well. Sometimes they will get who they can get. This training looks like that is part of the purpose.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Oh good grief. Oh GOOD GRIEF.

First of all, we do know that Christ had a beard. We do not know whether he had long hair although there are indications that he did because there are indications that it was common then. It is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

It must be noted that this image is not a Biblical image of Christ. It is only and image of an artist's interpretation that has been widely accepted for some strange reason. All you have to do is read Revelations and you will see that Jesus did not have long blonde hair with blue eyes. And it is even harder to believe when the people from that region do not look like that either historically and in present day time.

Peace

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Tim , you are absolutly right about your opinion, and I believe that body art is just as much a distraction as a pony tail but, as you said we are both entitled to those opinions.

The point here is, just as we perceive the ability of an official by their appearance (and it definitely happens), we perceive others by what they say and do.

"Goof, dumb, idiot, moron, critical of every one," well my peception of that person is a someone that feels as though riducule of others is necessary for them to be noticed. Someone looking for attention at the expense of others. Someone that thinks with their mouth rather than their brain when out on the field, A hothead, a cowboy. My perceptions may be totally wrong but, as we agree, I am entitled to them.

Given my choice , I probably rather work with the pony tailed official.

And the fact that he doesn't get the bible reference, just reinforces my perception of him.

Am I being critical of him, yep but, I have a right to my opinion.

I get the Bible reference but it does not apply. I am not talking about sins here. I am not judging his soul or his moral character. He may be the greatest guy you would ever want to meet.

I am talking about my personal opinions about umpire appearance. You have them, also-LOTS of them.

What is your personal opinion of an umpire that shows up 2 minutes before game time with a ratty looking hat, wrinkled pants and dirty shoes? Probably the same as mine.

My guess is that you have a long list of umpire appearance dos and don'ts. Just think about it for a few moments. We all have that list and almost everyone here would agree on most of the list. There is a very large percentage of North American society that agrees with me that Pony Tails look goofy on a guy. There is even a larger percentage of people who think that pony tails look goofy on a man doing a job that carries authority.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know a lot of people in the military and they are not always that conservative. That being said I am sure you are right to some extent, but to say it is the most conservative when people in many parts of the Midwest never see anyone but them in a diversity way, I would challenge your claim on so many fronts. That all being said, wearing a ponytail for a local league is not the same as working a full college schedule as an umpire. The standards are not quite the same and I am sure many of us here are blowing out of proportion what someone looks like based on a very narrow standard. A local youth league needs a body; they are not worried about what they completely look like if they have fewer choices. I know they are not going to get a lot of top umpires or multi-sport officials that are successful as well. Sometimes they will get who they can get. This training looks like that is part of the purpose.

Peace

First, I did not say that San Diego was the "most conservative." I did say, correctly, that it is "one of the most conservative."

Secondly, the umpire to whom I was referring is a top notch umpire who worked the highest level of baseball our association offered, which was D-1 baseball, as well as the plumb HS assignments. He is a great umpire, and his long hair in a ponytail was NEVER a concern to either the association, the assignment secretary, the CIF, or any of the HS coaches, who absolutely loved the guy.

Being bigoted against long hair went out in the 1960s. It's 2009, and people wear their hair any way they choose, and if they can umpire some baseball, and I mean really umpire it, not just be a warm body, then they should get the assignments based on merit, not their hairstyle.

[Paul L]

A ponytail does not necessarily look "goof", except in the eyes of some beholders.

An umpire needs to be well-groomed enough to command (or at least not repel) the respect of the players and coaches. That should be the assignor's test, using the standards of the players and coaches. A well-groomed (subjective, I know) ponytail can look the part. Even with non-outlandish (inlandish?) earrings and tattoos. And accuracy, consistency, rules knowledge, hustle, and game management can compensate for a marginal appearance.

Get with the times, fellow fogies! Given the low participation of youth in baseball, especially after puberty, maybe competent ponytailed umps can help attract some of the dropouts who think baseball is boring and uncool.

[Paul L]

Oh, and Steve, that bearded guy is gonna havta lose that smock before I assign him to any playoff games. But for some reason, I think he'd look good with a Barry Bonds-style diamond cross earring.