Earrings and a ponytail.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I have no problem some that locales don't consider a professional appearance to be important.

In my area those gentlement would be highly regarded for their mechanics knowledge and ability and perhaps their rules knowledge. Again, they would not be considred great umpires without the complete package.

Appearance, professionalism, grooming, and athleticism all appear on our rating sheet.

It does not cause us to use inferior umpires, rather, our members understand the importance placed on those traits and make them part of their umpiring. Your arguement that these guys would get short shrift in other areas in speculation. If they are that good, and if umpiring is important to them, I would speculate they would follow the rules of their association.

Different strokes. We are not California casual here. And from my experience, none of the pros I've run into are either.

California casual ...

Do you prefer a clean-shaven, egotistical, immobile hack to a humble, diligent, knowledgeable, mobile umpiring devotee? Because our assignors often make that same choice. And our evaluators often weigh 15 different criteria against grooming, and rate great umpires with goatees accordingly.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

California casual ...

Do you prefer a clean-shaven, egotistical, immobile hack to a humble, diligent, knowledgeable, mobile umpiring devotee? Because our assignors often make that same choice. And our evaluators often weigh 15 different criteria against grooming, and rate great umpires with goatees accordingly.

Of course not, but I don't think that's the issue here.

The issue is a clean-shaven, egotistical, imobile hack vs. a bearded, egotistical, immobile hack.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Of course not, but I don't think that's the issue here.

The issue is a clean-shaven, egotistical, imobile hack vs. a bearded, egotistical, immobile hack.

The issue as I've read along seems to be that "improper grooming" [insert personal definition here] is in and of itself reason to disqualify an umpire.

Good thing that it doesn't apply to players - we'd have missed out on a LOT of really good ones.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Of course not, but I don't think that's the issue here.

The issue is a clean-shaven, egotistical, imobile hack vs. a bearded, egotistical, immobile hack.

Perfect!

That was beautiful.

We disagree almost not at all on this one, then?

[UmpJM]

Well....

This has been an illuminating conversation.

When I was younger, I have worn both a ponytail and an earring - at times, concurrently.

I have never worn either while umpiring a baseball game.

Nor would I hold it against an umpire who did, were I in a position to do so (which I'm not).

I finally watched the linked video. I was pretty impressed with the quality of the training someone was putting on for youth umpires. (Yeah, I thought the feet together thing was pretty wierd, but, overall...)

The gentleman in question, with the earrings and ponytail, seemed to know what he was talking about and had a good "manner" with the kids he was teaching. He was also "professionally dressed", which, to me, is more important than the person's appearance with regard to hair length, facial hair, piercings, or "ink".

Yeah, I could "quibble" with a few things he was teaching, but I bet the kids paid attention to him.

My impression is that he'd be a fun partner to work with.

Now, I wear my hair shorter. If I'm working a game at a HS with a "dress code", I will conform to that code in what I wear driving to the game. That's just how I do it.

I don't think a ponytail should be any more disqualifying than a "buzz cut". In some situations it is.

Recognize the situation and, as in all things, do as you think best.

JM

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, I've lived in KC, Illinois, and 10 years in Texas, but we're a big Republican stronghold in a sea of liberalism which is California. We are a military city and damn proud of them.

Are you implying that you can't be proud of the military if you're not a conservative?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Are you implying that you can't be proud of the military if you're not a conservative?

No, I think he's implying that much like Norfolk Va, SD is a military town. Nothing more.

Tim.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

California casual ...

Do you prefer a clean-shaven, egotistical, immobile hack to a humble, diligent, knowledgeable, mobile umpiring devotee? Because our assignors often make that same choice. And our evaluators often weigh 15 different criteria against grooming, and rate great umpires with goatees accordingly.

Why would you assume that it had to be such a choice, especially when I've specified "the complete package" in all my posts?

I believe really good umpires step up and fmeet the expectations of their associations. Different locales, different expectations, apparently. We follow the pro expectations. Some do not.

[greymule]

Are you implying that you can't be proud of the military if you're not a conservative?

I know many non-conservatives who think highly of our military; some serve in it. However, I used to live in the college town of Princeton, New Jersey, and there are many people there—who have all sorts of wonderful degrees and teach the "best and the brightest"—who have nothing but contempt for the U.S. military and anyone who serves in it. They are also quite outspoken about their feelings, too, especially since they are usually among kindred spirits. They see to it that military recruiters cannot set foot on campus. I guarantee you that not a single one is a conservative.

There may be some, but I never met a conservative who hated our military.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by greymule

There may be some, but I never met a conservative who hated our military.

Fred Phelps.

[umpduck11]

Doesn't this entire thread boil down simply to accepted local standards ? Every association I've been associated with has standards, most of which they themselves set. Either you meet those standards (in your opinion fair or not), or you do not.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by greymule

Are you implying that you can't be proud of the military if you're not a conservative?

I know many non-conservatives who think highly of our military; some serve in it. However, I used to live in the college town of Princeton, New Jersey, and there are many people there—who have all sorts of wonderful degrees and teach the "best and the brightest"—who have nothing but contempt for the U.S. military and anyone who serves in it. They are also quite outspoken about their feelings, too, especially since they are usually among kindred spirits. They see to it that military recruiters cannot set foot on campus. I guarantee you that not a single one is a conservative.

There may be some, but I never met a conservative who hated our military.

This whole statement is one of the most absurd statements I have ever read on this subject. How prejudiced can a supposed sports official be? Good glory! You need to get to know more people. Oh, after first prying open your mind.

... Grey Mule, I'm pretty liberal, and I help veterans every week. I've been helping veterans ever since 1981. And I don't mean write a check to some charity, I mean feed, clothe, clean up and otherwise help them cope with being homeless and forgotten by the country that they risked their lives to serve. They live on the streets and park lands surrounding the V.A. near my office in Westwood. I take them to UCLA baseball games and just talk to them like they mean something. Sometimes, they just need to be fed some hope that someday the nation will take responsibility for them in the manner that they are due and were promised. Meanwhile, we do. And it's nowhere near enough, because less than one percent of the people in this nation help them.

Do you even know that there are 300,000 homeless veterans in this country? That number will be skyrocketing in the next two years. What do you do to contribute besides making these bizarre statements?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by greymule

Are you implying that you can't be proud of the military if you're not a conservative?

I know many non-conservatives who think highly of our military; some serve in it. However, I used to live in the college town of Princeton, New Jersey, and there are many people there—who have all sorts of wonderful degrees and teach the "best and the brightest"—who have nothing but contempt for the U.S. military and anyone who serves in it. They are also quite outspoken about their feelings, too, especially since they are usually among kindred spirits. They see to it that military recruiters cannot set foot on campus. I guarantee you that not a single one is a conservative.

There may be some, but I never met a conservative who hated our military.

Amen. There are many anti-military people out there, and they are most definitely on the far-left.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

This whole statement is one of the most absurd statements I have ever read on this subject. How prejudiced can a supposed sports official be? Good glory! You need to know more people. Oh, after prying open your mind.

I don't see anything wrong with his statement. He correctly points out that many non-conservatives and liberals have served in the military and are very patriotic people in general. He also pointed out correctly that there are those among us with a hatred and contempt for our military, and these people are trying to indoctrinate the youth of this country against everything our country has proudly stood for all these many years. They do prohibit military recruiters on campuses. That's a fact, not a closed-minded opinion.

I too have never known of a conservative (I don't even know who the hell Fred Phelps is) who hates the military, but I do know a whole lot of ultra left-wing, free-to-be-hug-a-tree-let's-save-everything-except-people nuts out there who, like Bill Clinton, "loathe the military."

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

like Bill Clinton, "loathe the military."

Clinton did not loathe the military.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Matt

Clinton did not loathe the military.

He may have you there, Steve. If Bubba said it then there is every reason to believe that he does not loathe the military. I will stand on the side of history ans assume the opposite of what Bubba actually said.