Marty Foster's call at 3rd base today

[w_sohl]

I may have called him out I may have called him safe. If I would have called him out, after seeing the replay, I would have eaten my crow and admitted I blew the call. Jeter was safe, Hirsh missed it. Happens.

I just don't get this "expected call" and "neighborhood play" crap. Don't get me wrong, if that is what my boss wants, that is what I'll do, but if a guy is safe/out he is safe/out. I can explain to a coach that the runner got his hand in before the tag was applied. I can't tell him that the throw beat him so he is out and then expect a coach not to question every single call I make after that point. I know a coach is going to questions calls, but an explanation like that invites a questions every time and eventually a shat storm. If I tell him the throw beat him now he is going to expect an out on every throw that beats the runner, whether force or not even if it is obvious the runner is safe.

Why throw fuel on the fire of the perceived incompetences of our fraternity? Especially at the D1 and Pro levels with all the replays they have. This just adds more ammo to the morons that want everything called electronically and to take out the human element of the game.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by Ump153

At least in the press.

You callin' the crew chief a liar?

Seriously, Hirschbeck didn't take the convenient way out. He didn't back his crew member. There's no way to pass that off as feeding the press a line that he didn't really mean.

[Ump153]

"Jeter admitted that the Yankees have benefited from similar calls in the past, but he said he had never actually heard an umpire admitting to ruling a player out because the ball beat him.

"It bothers you if it's you, but if it works in your favor, you don't really mind it that much," Jeter said. "It happens. I just have never been told that before. It wasn't an argument, it was just that I didn't understand it."

So he wants it both ways. Rat.

Jeter knows how it's called. He admitted it. But when Marty talked to him as a pro, Jeter decided to take it like a Rat. Marty's mistake was to assume that Jeter could handle the truth.

It'll be a cold day before Jeter gets that call on defense again from any umpire.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Only because it was mis-called.

Spoken like a true coach.

Originally Posted by Fan10

I wonder which assessment of Jeter's character is the more accurate.

Mine, of course. You take John Hirschbeck's appeasement of the press over an honest assessment? Even Hirschbeck admitted that "it used to be called that way." Well, I'm from that old school, and sorry if I don't call a runner who is out by 15 feet safe because a fielder didn't want to get his hand injured by a sliding runner.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

I just don't get this "expected call" and "neighborhood play" crap. Don't get me wrong, if that is what my boss wants, that is what I'll do, but if a guy is safe/out he is safe/out.

I was taught (by professional umpires) that if a fielder has a tag down waiting for the runner, and he does not drop the ball, that the runner is out when he slides in. The umpire bosses want it that way, the coaches want it that way. Except when it goes against their team, of course.

[ozzy6900]

Why didn't Marty just say "Derek, to me it looked like he tagged you so go sit down!". That would have ended the whole thing. Wrong call? Maybe, but there is no IR on safe/out calls - yet!

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Why didn't Marty just say "Derek, to me it looked like he tagged you so go sit down!". That would have ended the whole thing. Wrong call? Maybe, but there is no IR on safe/out calls - yet!

Yep. Marty's only mistake was a bad choice of words.

[jicecone]

Out all the way, period.

I agree Ozzy, "Ball was there and in my opinion, the tag was made."

Jeter may have fooled him at the last minute by pulling his hand back but I would have still called him out also. In fact, he probably would of had to throw out the Toronto skipper if he didn't call him out.

[aceholleran]

I think I would have called "safe" due to F5 Rolen not leaving his glove down there.

I do NOT buy into the announcers'/fans' viewpoint that "Jeter never argues, so he must have been right."

ace in CT

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Spoken like a true coach.

One thing many of you fail to grasp is that the coach can be on either side of the argument. It could be my runner. It could be my fielder. I have to consider what call should be made from both perspectives. And my choice is call it properly.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

One thing many of you fail to grasp is that the coach can be on either side of the argument. It could be my runner. It could be my fielder. I have to consider what call should be made from both perspectives. And my choice is call it properly.

And properly, since Alexander Cartwright's day, has been to call the runner out.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

And properly, since Alexander Cartwright's day, has been to call the runner out.

OK, then let me rephrase it.

Not properly. Conveniently maybe, but not properly.

This isn't horseshoes or hand grenades. Close enough doesn't count.

The rule says you have to tag the runner before he touches the base. Require it and call it.

As pointed out by the crew chief at the game - the old days are gone - require the tag.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

As pointed out by the crew chief at the game - the old days are gone - require the tag.

I wonder if he changed his position on throwing at batters on steroids heads as well.

Rich, that might be true in your neck of the woods, but the coaches here have always wanted that call to go to the defense, and nobody argues the call. It's the way it's always been done. Why fix something that ain't broken? The coaches want that call on defense, so they aren't going to say anything when it doesn't go their way on offense.

[NFump]

Call in favor = "Good call, blue" and wipe brow, talk about how ump blew call with other coaches later; Call against = come out and argue, say call it "properly", "Get it right" or "Ask for help".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I wonder if he changed his position on throwing at batters on steroids heads as well.

Rich, that might be true in your neck of the woods, but the coaches here have always wanted that call to go to the defense, and nobody argues the call. It's the way it's always been done. Why fix something that ain't broken? The coaches want that call on defense, so they aren't going to say anything when it doesn't go their way on offense.

Really?

It's more like they want it their way on both offense and defense. And the post above saying how they act happy on the field and then mock the umpire for missing the actual call in the dugout is spot on.

I've watched coaches from opposing teams come up to a coach who had a run-in with an umpire laugh and chuckle about it and pretty much show that when it comes to umpires they're closer to being on the same team than their uniforms would indicate. A reminder that most coaches are, in the end, of the genus rattus maximus.