Why not another? 9U play

[mj]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I actually have not umpired HS ball in a few years and do not have those books. I can probably get a hold of one, though. Please refer me to the page that tells a coach to get his runners called out. I have the code of ethics for our league, and that is not in here.

I did not holler at this guy. I did not show him up. I did not argue with him. Nobody heard what I said to him other than him.

"The coach shall respect and support contest officials. The coach shall not indulge in conduct which would incite players or spectators against the officials. Public criticism of officials or players is unethical."

"Officials shall work with each other and their state associations in a constructive and cooperative manner."

How do you explain to the parents after the game when they ask you about that play? Do you just answer "not my fault that Cell Phone McGee doesn't know the rules." I just can't fathom that and I think I would lose alot of respect for any coach that feels that way.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

I encourage evaluation of my games. I seek out people to evaluate me. However, my umpiring skills have nothing to do with this situation.

Whether I have umpired 15 years or none, as a coach, I am not going to help an umpire call my guy out.

I am not an umpire when I am a coach and I am not a coach when I am an umpire.

I will never understand umpires who put on the coaching uniform and it's almost like they've never umpired or even heard the word integrity. You didn't just keep quiet, you essentially told the umpire "you called him safe, you can't change it now." One pound of cheese for the rat.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Pete,

You forgot one thing. I did not do anything wrong.

Joe

In addition to the "ignore" button, the owners should install a "rat" switch.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I will never understand umpires who put on the coaching uniform and it's almost like they've never umpired or even heard the word integrity. You didn't just keep quiet, you essentially told the umpire "you called him safe, you can't change it now." One pound of cheese for the rat.

The phrase "coach that also umpires" seems appropriate here.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mj

"The coach shall respect and support contest officials. The coach shall not indulge in conduct which would incite players or spectators against the officials. Public criticism of officials or players is unethical."

"Officials shall work with each other and their state associations in a constructive and cooperative manner."

How do you explain to the parents after the game when they ask you about that play? Do you just answer "not my fault that Cell Phone McGee doesn't know the rules." I just can't fathom that and I think I would lose alot of respect for any coach that feels that way.

Again, this was not an NFHS game.

As for your question: I was asked about the play by some players: Why did they call him safe? The 2B tagged him. I said: "You are right, he was tagged long before he got to the base. I have no idea why the umpire called him safe." It was completely true...at that time, I had no idea why Cell Phone McGhee had made such a terrible call.

As for the parents, we have a good group...an ex-pro athlete, an ex-Minor League and NCAA baseball umpire, and some others...I heard comments like this:

"I like how you do not argue with the umpires."
"I think it is good how you teach the kids to respect the umpires."
"I am very appreciative how you are constantly encouraging our players throughout the game."

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Since when is it your place to determine if a person hird by the league is overpaid? Maybe he's there at $37.50 cause that's the only person they could get. 9U? Regular season? I wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot-pole.

(I have been known to do some LL games at this level for free, but that's different. Besides, we scare those coaches and if they act up we make them go away.)

I did not say he was overpaid. I was posting that in response to the guy that said he got free uniforms at McDonald's. I posted that to show that a guy who shaves and votes and takes a job should know a little bit about what he is doing when he is getting my money.

I remember the first time I ever officiated anything...I was the line judge for volleyball at my High School when I was in the 9th grade. I made sure to go over everything to make sure I knew what I was doing because they were PAYING ME. I was only 15 years old at the time.

Whatever wrongs you think I committed, it is nothing compared to someone taking money for a job and not trying to do it well. What about the tournament people who collected a lot of money and got umpires who had never seen a baseball game.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Okay, why is everyone citing NFHS rules for this non-NFHS situation? I don't believe he was discussing a HS situation. So, this would apply how?

Oh, I see. Lying and cheating are acceptable until the players are age 15-18 and participate in a NFHS sanctioned contest?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Again, this was not an NFHS game.

To justify your actions because this was not a FED game speaks volumes of your integrity and ethics. You're willing to lie, cheat and steal while coaching 9 year olds. I've never liked the term before but "rat" is a perfect description for you and your actions.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I will never understand umpires who put on the coaching uniform and it's almost like they've never umpired or even heard the word integrity. You didn't just keep quiet, you essentially told the umpire "you called him safe, you can't change it now." One pound of cheese for the rat.

What does the adult on the cell phone collecting umpire fees get?

I did not tell him what he could and could not do. I made a flippant comment to a guy who had my money to do a job and was had made no effort to do that job properly.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Oh, I see. Lying and cheating are acceptable until the players are age 15-18 and participate in a NFHS sanctioned contest?

I did not lie. I did not cheat.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by waltjp

To justify your actions because this was not a FED game speaks volumes of your integrity and ethics. You're willing to lie, cheat and steal while coaching 9 year olds. I've never liked the term before but "rat" is a perfect description for you and your actions.

I did not lie, cheat or steal.

Now, the guy that took money for a job that he knew he could not do...some might say he was cheating and/or lying and/or stealing.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I did not lie, cheat or steal.

Now, the guy that took money for a job that he knew he could not do...some might say he was cheating and/or lying and/or stealing.

You lied: "You can't call him out. You already called him safe."

Of COURSE he could have changed his own call. Liar.

[jwwashburn]

This is the code for our league:

To insure both players and umpires are
provided a positive environment, free from
physical and emotional harassment, the league, has
the following managerial prohibitions:
1. The touching of an umpire.
2. Leaving the designated area in a hostile
manner (i.e. dugout, coach’s box) without
permission, except if an injury to a
player has occurred.
3. A coach or manager shall not approach an
umpire without first being given
permission or granted a time out.
4. The use of foul language.
5. The throwing/abuse of equipment.
6. Continuous verbal harassment and/or
unsportsmanlike conduct.
7. Fan misbehavior.
8. Calling a play before the umpire.

Violation of items 5&6 will receive one (1)
warning and the expulsion of the manager or
coach of the team if a second violation
occurs during the game. It should be noted
that the managers and coaches are responsible
for their fans behavior.
Violation of all other items will result in
immediate ejection.
-------------------------------
Our 3rd base coach violated #8 and I was on him like the stink on Rosie O'Donnell. I have had a few fans that might have been in violation of #7 if allowed to continue...I squleched it at the start of the season. I had a player throw his bat after striking out in the second inning and he was done for the game.

[JPaco54]

[QUOTE=jwwashburn;608170]
I said, "Nope, too late. You called him safe." I turned around and jogged away and heard him say but, but....I never looked back.

Joe, you can justify your actions to make yourself feel less guilt, and that is what I perceive from all your comments. Like I stated before, I do not know you personally and will not judge you personally, But my perception to this is a simple statement you made to the young ump. "Nope, too late. You called him safe." Then you ignored him and jogged off. To me this is just a flat lie. So, again perception. My perception of this OP is that you are trying to justify your actions in this situation by gaining some support from the members here. Otherwise, why would you post this situation? But, as you can tell you keep getting in deeper and keep trying to justify your actions. Some questions one should be asking oneself is...What did your young players learn from this? What was their perception on how the coach handled it? Can you tell them honestly without a doubt that you handled it correctly? How do you instill trust and honestly and team work and unity amoung the players and coaches? I carry some guilt from some of my past actions like yelling at a ref and getting tossed out of a gym in a youth basketball game 7 years ago. I explained to my wife my actions to gain support and to justify what I did and she quickly and directly told me I was wrong and you embarrased yourself and your family. My youngest boy has never forgotten that and I never will either. I had to ask him to forgive me and to explain to him how wrong I was. Humble pie, you bet. Maybe you should explain this situation to your spouse or close friend and see what feedback you get. Can't hurt anymore than what you have already received from these posts.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You lied: "You can't call him out. You already called him safe."

Of COURSE he could have changed his own call. Liar.

If you are going to call me a liar, then do not intentionally misquote me.