Why not another? 9U play

[jicecone]

Is it me, or since I moved from the north country has the cold weather really affected you guys that much?

Joe has now complained twice about umpires for 9U games. Well "No Freaking Kidding" , they suck. If Joe was only a coach, we could accept this ignorance but, he says he is also an umpire. Does he also complain to the parents of his team that their kids don't play like MLB players?

So what part of this don't you understand Chicago?

[SanDiegoSteve]

You cannot expect coaches not to cheat. It's their nature.

You cannot expect an umpire to be anything but impartial. It's their nature.

When you are both a coach and an umpire, you wear two different hats, and have two distinct personalities, which you must separate for each job.

No coach is going to go out and bail out the umpire for blowing a call in their favor. You people really expect a coach, even one who umpires, to ask an umpire to overrule themselves against their own team? Cha, right.

[JPaco54]

I guess I will jump in here as well, since I came over to the dark side as they say, coaching to now umpiring (last two years) all youth baseball. I have been humbled as a person, a man, a father and a mentor(so I thought) when I would jump on all and any umpire I thought was not giving me the calls or getting the calls right. I know now of what I didn’t know and it has changed my perspective on people on the real meaning of competition and what sports have become. I love working the games and see young kids learn and grow. I continually see coaches take advantage of young umpires. That is why in our organization we pair a young umpire with a Sr. umpire and that is for two reasons. 1. To protect the young umpire from being used and abused by coaches and fans. 2. To mentor, teach guide encourage. I don’t know the umpire personally that posted the OP but what I can do is reflect on another approach I would have offered such as explaining to the young ump his options and allowing him to get it right or learn from it in fairness to the game and in honor of the game. I grow weary of coaches influencing young athletes of why they lost a game due to an umpire’s error when in fact they should be teaching how to overcome adversity overcome challenges overcome situations when they don’t go your way or what you perceive to be your way. How to improve on the game and your skills, take aways as to what you learned or gained in the game today. That is what they should walk away with. Such is life right? Or, maybe it is all about winning at any cost....lessons learned from our recent economic strife based on honor, integrity, character and doing the right thing. What will that young player that got hit in the back learn from this experience as he witnessed his coach communicating to this young umpire? I am sure the other players in ear shout heard him as well. What do they come away with? What does this young umpire come away with? Are we building bridges or building walls?

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No coach is going to go out and bail out the umpire for blowing a call in their favor. You people really expect a coach, even one who umpires, to ask an umpire to overrule themselves against their own team? Cha, right.

Horn blowing time. First of all shame on you Mr Washburn.

During the summer I coach an American Legion team (18-19 yr olds). Last summer while playing our biggest rival (who usually kicks our arses all over the field) I was coaching 3rd base when our batter sent a line drive over my head and landed 8 feet foul down the left field line. As I put up the stop sign for the runner at first I noticed that the PU was signaling the ball fair. When he saw me stopping my runner you could see him gulp. He came into the infield and verbally asked the BU if he saw the ball. Before the Bu could respond I quietly said, "its foul Steve". He then threw up his hands and changed his call.

After the inning the General manager met me in the dug out and asked me, just what in the h@!! are you doing. (he was half kidding) I told him you know what you got when you hired me. He asked me if I would have done the same thing in the tournament and I told him, "lets cross that bridge then". I think he knew then what his answer was.

Integrity, and the teaching of it is a big part of Baseball to me and alot of you (came to that conclusion by reading your posts). Especially at the lower levels coaches and umpires and parents should teach their players this aspect.

[MrUmpire]

A rat in denial. Classic.

[PeteBooth]

JM while we are "all over the coach" what has NOT been mentioned is this

BU calls him safe and calls time.

The PU told me a couple of innings later that the BU had thought that the runner was awarded the base because he was hit.

We have 2 umpires out there the BU and the PU

Why in the world is the PU talking to this coach and throwing his YOUNG partner the BU under the bus UNLESS the PU is young himslef which would explain a lot.

Here is what should have happened assuming the PU had experience.

During the 90 second delay (when the coach was attending to the kid that got hit in the back), the PU should have signalled to the BU, got his attention and said "unless you thought R1 interfered on the play the runner is out as he was tagged."

Therefore, IMO we need to be consistent. if we are going to call the coach a rat what are we going to call the PU (again assuming the PU had experience) who threw his partner under the bus by telling the coach that the BU ruled the runner safe becasue he was hit with the ball and thereby embarassing the young umpire.

At best the PU should have kept quiet and then AFTER the game had a post game with the young umpire so that the young umpire could improove and also learn not to be intimated by a coach.

I agree 9 and under - enough said but there is more to go around here then just the coach. The PU could have and IMO should have stepped up to the plate and protected his partner but he did not.

if this PU was as young and inexperienced as the BU then forget my above comments.

Pete Booth

[UmpJM]

Pete,

Valid points. I concur.

At least the PU didn't come on here and brag about throwing his partner under the bus.

JM

[jwwashburn]

Consider this OP:

An 18 yr old kid gives me a McFish instead of a Big Mac and the French Fries are still frozen and the Coke I ordered is an Ice Tea. This is after he shorted me 3 dollars in change and did not wash his hands before handling the food.

That is pretty close to the product I am getting as a consumer of these umpires except they are making more than twice the hourly wage that the Mcdonald's kid is making. I expect the guy at McDonald's to have some training and have some idea what he is doing. Will he have the cash register mastered in the first week, probably not. Should he know that they do not sell Whoppers? Yes, he should.

Here are the things that I bring to my team as an experienced umpire.

1) Our players have been instructed to not argue with umpires. Not make faces or anything like that.

2) Our parents are instructed to not chirp or yell at the umpires.

3) Our coaches do not argue with the umpires-I am the only to talk to them and only in extreme situations. Umpires will here nothing about balls and strikes from us (ok once I did say after a ball was called a strike-Hey. That hit home plate-I am not joking)

Mentoring the umpires? I tried after a game to encourage/mentor/etc and got nothing out of it. The advice I got here was to not try that.

Someone else said something about winning. In our league we are in he middle. In the tournament this weekend, we got clobbered three straight games. When Cell Phone McGhee called my guy safe then sorta thought about changing his mind, we were losing 15-1 and no one heard me comment other than the umpire-nobody even knew he was considering a reversal except me.

I am having a boatload of fun coaching this team-so are our kids.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

JM while we are "all over the coach" what has NOT been mentioned is this



We have 2 umpires out there the BU and the PU

Why in the world is the PU talking to this coach and throwing his YOUNG partner the BU under the bus UNLESS the PU is young himslef which would explain a lot.

Here is what should have happened assuming the PU had experience.

During the 90 second delay (when the coach was attending to the kid that got hit in the back), the PU should have signalled to the BU, got his attention and said "unless you thought R1 interfered on the play the runner is out as he was tagged."

Therefore, IMO we need to be consistent. if we are going to call the coach a rat what are we going to call the PU (again assuming the PU had experience) who threw his partner under the bus by telling the coach that the BU ruled the runner safe becasue he was hit with the ball and thereby embarassing the young umpire.

At best the PU should have kept quiet and then AFTER the game had a post game with the young umpire so that the young umpire could improove and also learn not to be intimated by a coach.

I agree 9 and under - enough said but there is more to go around here then just the coach. The PU could have and IMO should have stepped up to the plate and protected his partner but he did not.

if this PU was as young and inexperienced as the BU then forget my above comments.

Pete Booth

Pete,

Valid points about the PU(He looked to be in the 18-21 range, as well)

You forgot one thing. I did not do anything wrong.

Joe

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Consider this OP:

An 18 yr old kid gives me a McFish instead of a Big Mac and the French Fries are still frozen and the Coke I ordered is an Ice Tea. This is after he shorted me 3 dollars in change and did not wash his hands before handling the food.

That's not close to the OP at all.

Try this one: You get two big macs instead of one, and $3 extra in change.

After the big macs are put on the tray, but before the tray is handed to you, you say, "it's too late. You filled my order", take the tray, the extra $3 and walk away smiling.

Integrity, indeed.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Horn blowing time. First of all shame on you Mr Washburn.

During the summer I coach an American Legion team (18-19 yr olds). Last summer while playing our biggest rival (who usually kicks our arses all over the field) I was coaching 3rd base when our batter sent a line drive over my head and landed 8 feet foul down the left field line. As I put up the stop sign for the runner at first I noticed that the PU was signaling the ball fair. When he saw me stopping my runner you could see him gulp. He came into the infield and verbally asked the BU if he saw the ball. Before the Bu could respond I quietly said, "its foul Steve". He then threw up his hands and changed his call.

After the inning the General manager met me in the dug out and asked me, just what in the h@!! are you doing. (he was half kidding) I told him you know what you got when you hired me. He asked me if I would have done the same thing in the tournament and I told him, "lets cross that bridge then". I think he knew then what his answer was.

Integrity, and the teaching of it is a big part of Baseball to me and alot of you (came to that conclusion by reading your posts). Especially at the lower levels coaches and umpires and parents should teach their players this aspect.

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

[umpjong]

So you took some of your frustration out on the young kid. That makes it better?
How about getting the call right and teaching sportsmanship to your players. In my humble opinion you missed a great teaching opportunity on this one....

(was probably the same kid at McDonalds too.. Might have spit on your sammich )

[mbyron]

I think a lot of people forget that 'winning' is defined by the rules. If you don't play by the rules, you cannot win. You can only appear to win.

That's called cheating.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

So integrity means nothing to you?
(oh by the way, yours was a 9 yr old game?)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

I don't get this at all. The kids know it's foul, the parents know it's foul, the GM knows it's foul. The right thing is to be sportsmanlike and do what he did. Furthermore, it's possible he was the one who blocked the umpire from seeing the ball. Personally, I'm good for about one gross miss a season or two. I don't know how that evens out unless I happen to have you again two seasons from now when I screw up again.

I know this is a sweeping generalization, but in general I *hate* working for coaches who also umpire. Many of them do not really have a grasp of the rules, mechanics, etc. but because they umpire a few games makes them more of an expert than me. I don't really mind too much, but I tend to have a much shorter rope with those guys, especially if they announce that they umpire before the game starts (like I care).