Why not another? 9U play

[jwwashburn]

This happened Sunday.

We had a runner on 1st, 0 out

Grounder to 1B, tags first and throws to second and nails our runner in the back. He whimpers. I am coaching first and yell for him to get to the base...2B tags him 5 feet from the base and BU calls him safe and calls time.

I jog out to check on the kid and the BU is hearing all sorts of exasperated hollering from the Defensive team's dugout. After about 90 seconds, I convince the kid that he is ok and when I turn around, BU says I think he should be out. I said, "Nope, too late. You called him safe." I turned around and jogged away and heard him say but, but....I never looked back.

The PU told me a couple of innings later that the BU had thought that the runner was awarded the base because he was hit.

Joe in Missuri

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

This happened Sunday.

We had a runner on 1st, 0 out

Grounder to 1B, tags first and throws to second and nails our runner in the back. He whimpers. I am coaching first and yell for him to get to the base...2B tags him 5 feet from the base and BU calls him safe and calls time.

I jog out to check on the kid and the BU is hearing all sorts of exasperated hollering from the Defensive team's dugout. After about 90 seconds, I convince the kid that he is ok and when I turn around, BU says I think he should be out. I said, "Nope, too late. You called him safe." I turned around and jogged away and heard him say but, but....I never looked back.

The PU told me a couple of innings later that the BU had thought that the runner was awarded the base because he was hit.

Joe in Missuri

Joe,

So, if I'm reading you right, you just wanted to let everyone know that you choose to behave as a rat when you are coaching freaking 9U games, where you very likely have poorly-trained, inexperienced youth umpires. And that you find some sort of humor in the situation.

Interesting.

JM

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Joe,

So, if I'm reading you right, you just wanted to let everyone know that you choose to behave as a rat when you are coaching freaking 9U games, where you very likely have poorly-trained, inexperienced youth umpires. And that you find some sort of humor in the situation.

Interesting.

JM

He deserved what he got from the Defensive team. He was at least 18 years old-an adult. If this moron does not the rules or the first thing about umpiring, then do not come out on the field. If he got OBS and INT confused, that would be one thing but, this was ridiculous-he just made up a rule.

If he had CALLED him out that would have been one thing...he just told me what he thought...so I politely told him what I thought and jogged away. I did not argue. I did not yell. I smiled.

Joe in Missouri

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

He deserved what he got from the Defensive team. He was at least 18 years old-an adult. If this moron does not the rules or the first thing about umpiring, then do not come out on the field. If he got OBS and INT confused, that would be one thing but, this was ridiculous-he just made up a rule.

If he had CALLED him out that would have been one thing...he just told me what he thought...so I politely told him what I thought and jogged away. I did not argue. I did not yell. I smiled.

Joe in Missouri

If you are an experienced umpire, you should have performed an honorable service to this young umpire as a mentor. You could have taken the high road; instead you crawled into a rat hole.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

He deserved what he got from the Defensive team. He was at least 18 years old-an adult. If this moron does not the rules or the first thing about umpiring, then do not come out on the field. If he got OBS and INT confused, that would be one thing but, this was ridiculous-he just made up a rule.

If he had CALLED him out that would have been one thing...he just told me what he thought...so I politely told him what I thought and jogged away. I did not argue. I did not yell. I smiled.

Joe in Missouri

Well, okay! You (who are an umpire and know the rules) did a great job of mentoring the "18 year old moron". You also did a great job of showing why I have said for years that umpire/coaches are just rats dressed up.

What comes around - goes around, chief! You'll get payback when you are in uniform!

[chicago11]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Joe,

So, if I'm reading you right, you just wanted to let everyone know that you choose to behave as a rat when you are coaching freaking 9U games, where you very likely have poorly-trained, inexperienced youth umpires. And that you find some sort of humor in the situation.

Interesting.

JM

I am not sure why you go right into the name calling. He went out there and told the ump he thought his own runner should be out. Now everyone accuses him of cheating?

If a coach would have come out to an umpire complaining that his runner should be awarded a base because he was hit with a ball while trying to advance, many people on this forum would be making fun of that coach left and right. But because the umpire made a bad call, now its the coach's fault for not mentoring him? I mean how many coach's come out in the first place and tell an umpire that he thinks his runner should be out? It has never happened to me.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by chicago11

I am not sure why you go right into the name calling. He went out there and told the ump he thought his own runner should be out. Now everyone accuses him of cheating?

....... I mean how many coach's come out in the first place and tell an umpire that he thinks his runner should be out? It has never happened to me.

Read the OP again! The coach didnt say his runner was out, but that he was safe!

[UmpJM]

chicago11,

I'm not sure what thread you're reading...

Joe, by his own account, did NOT tell the ump his runner was out. Rather, when the ump realized he probably blew the call (thanks to the helpful input of the team disadvantaged) Joe told him he couldn't change it. Which is, of course, wrong.

So, he's teaching 9 year old kids that it's OK to cheat as long as you gain some personal advantage and that pre-emptive intimidation is the preferred tactic when you are in a position to use it.

What thread are you reading?

JM

[MrUmpire]

A rat in denial. Classic.

[jicecone]

Is it me, or since I moved from the north country has the cold weather really affected you guys that much?

Joe has now complained twice about umpires for 9U games. Well "No Freaking Kidding" , they suck. If Joe was only a coach, we could accept this ignorance but, he says he is also an umpire. Does he also complain to the parents of his team that their kids don't play like MLB players?

So what part of this don't you understand Chicago?

[SanDiegoSteve]

You cannot expect coaches not to cheat. It's their nature.

You cannot expect an umpire to be anything but impartial. It's their nature.

When you are both a coach and an umpire, you wear two different hats, and have two distinct personalities, which you must separate for each job.

No coach is going to go out and bail out the umpire for blowing a call in their favor. You people really expect a coach, even one who umpires, to ask an umpire to overrule themselves against their own team? Cha, right.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No coach is going to go out and bail out the umpire for blowing a call in their favor. You people really expect a coach, even one who umpires, to ask an umpire to overrule themselves against their own team? Cha, right.

Horn blowing time. First of all shame on you Mr Washburn.

During the summer I coach an American Legion team (18-19 yr olds). Last summer while playing our biggest rival (who usually kicks our arses all over the field) I was coaching 3rd base when our batter sent a line drive over my head and landed 8 feet foul down the left field line. As I put up the stop sign for the runner at first I noticed that the PU was signaling the ball fair. When he saw me stopping my runner you could see him gulp. He came into the infield and verbally asked the BU if he saw the ball. Before the Bu could respond I quietly said, "its foul Steve". He then threw up his hands and changed his call.

After the inning the General manager met me in the dug out and asked me, just what in the h@!! are you doing. (he was half kidding) I told him you know what you got when you hired me. He asked me if I would have done the same thing in the tournament and I told him, "lets cross that bridge then". I think he knew then what his answer was.

Integrity, and the teaching of it is a big part of Baseball to me and alot of you (came to that conclusion by reading your posts). Especially at the lower levels coaches and umpires and parents should teach their players this aspect.

[JPaco54]

I guess I will jump in here as well, since I came over to the dark side as they say, coaching to now umpiring (last two years) all youth baseball. I have been humbled as a person, a man, a father and a mentor(so I thought) when I would jump on all and any umpire I thought was not giving me the calls or getting the calls right. I know now of what I didn’t know and it has changed my perspective on people on the real meaning of competition and what sports have become. I love working the games and see young kids learn and grow. I continually see coaches take advantage of young umpires. That is why in our organization we pair a young umpire with a Sr. umpire and that is for two reasons. 1. To protect the young umpire from being used and abused by coaches and fans. 2. To mentor, teach guide encourage. I don’t know the umpire personally that posted the OP but what I can do is reflect on another approach I would have offered such as explaining to the young ump his options and allowing him to get it right or learn from it in fairness to the game and in honor of the game. I grow weary of coaches influencing young athletes of why they lost a game due to an umpire’s error when in fact they should be teaching how to overcome adversity overcome challenges overcome situations when they don’t go your way or what you perceive to be your way. How to improve on the game and your skills, take aways as to what you learned or gained in the game today. That is what they should walk away with. Such is life right? Or, maybe it is all about winning at any cost....lessons learned from our recent economic strife based on honor, integrity, character and doing the right thing. What will that young player that got hit in the back learn from this experience as he witnessed his coach communicating to this young umpire? I am sure the other players in ear shout heard him as well. What do they come away with? What does this young umpire come away with? Are we building bridges or building walls?

[jwwashburn]

Consider this OP:

An 18 yr old kid gives me a McFish instead of a Big Mac and the French Fries are still frozen and the Coke I ordered is an Ice Tea. This is after he shorted me 3 dollars in change and did not wash his hands before handling the food.

That is pretty close to the product I am getting as a consumer of these umpires except they are making more than twice the hourly wage that the Mcdonald's kid is making. I expect the guy at McDonald's to have some training and have some idea what he is doing. Will he have the cash register mastered in the first week, probably not. Should he know that they do not sell Whoppers? Yes, he should.

Here are the things that I bring to my team as an experienced umpire.

1) Our players have been instructed to not argue with umpires. Not make faces or anything like that.

2) Our parents are instructed to not chirp or yell at the umpires.

3) Our coaches do not argue with the umpires-I am the only to talk to them and only in extreme situations. Umpires will here nothing about balls and strikes from us (ok once I did say after a ball was called a strike-Hey. That hit home plate-I am not joking)

Mentoring the umpires? I tried after a game to encourage/mentor/etc and got nothing out of it. The advice I got here was to not try that.

Someone else said something about winning. In our league we are in he middle. In the tournament this weekend, we got clobbered three straight games. When Cell Phone McGhee called my guy safe then sorta thought about changing his mind, we were losing 15-1 and no one heard me comment other than the umpire-nobody even knew he was considering a reversal except me.

I am having a boatload of fun coaching this team-so are our kids.

[PeteBooth]

JM while we are "all over the coach" what has NOT been mentioned is this

BU calls him safe and calls time.

The PU told me a couple of innings later that the BU had thought that the runner was awarded the base because he was hit.

We have 2 umpires out there the BU and the PU

Why in the world is the PU talking to this coach and throwing his YOUNG partner the BU under the bus UNLESS the PU is young himslef which would explain a lot.

Here is what should have happened assuming the PU had experience.

During the 90 second delay (when the coach was attending to the kid that got hit in the back), the PU should have signalled to the BU, got his attention and said "unless you thought R1 interfered on the play the runner is out as he was tagged."

Therefore, IMO we need to be consistent. if we are going to call the coach a rat what are we going to call the PU (again assuming the PU had experience) who threw his partner under the bus by telling the coach that the BU ruled the runner safe becasue he was hit with the ball and thereby embarassing the young umpire.

At best the PU should have kept quiet and then AFTER the game had a post game with the young umpire so that the young umpire could improove and also learn not to be intimated by a coach.

I agree 9 and under - enough said but there is more to go around here then just the coach. The PU could have and IMO should have stepped up to the plate and protected his partner but he did not.

if this PU was as young and inexperienced as the BU then forget my above comments.

Pete Booth