Why not another? 9U play

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think a lot of people forget that 'winning' is defined by the rules. If you don't play by the rules, you cannot win. You can only appear to win.

That's called cheating.

So, if I have a kid running that is obviously out but called safe, I should get him called out?

What about the three or four kids in that game that were obviously safe but called out? (two of them were tagged with empty gloves)

I did not cheat. I did not argue. Cell Phone Mcghee could have changed his call if he liked and I would have not said a word. What I was not going to do is help his change his call.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by umpjong

So you took some of your frustration out on the young kid. That makes it better?
How about getting the call right and teaching sportsmanship to your players. In my humble opinion you missed a great teaching opportunity on this one....

(was probably the same kid at McDonalds too.. Might have spit on your sammich )

I was the coach. My job is not to get the call right. That was Cell Phone McGhee's job.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I was the coach. My job is not to get the call right. That was Cell Phone McGhee's job.

So you disagree with the NFHS in that umpires, coaches etc. must work together to assure that the student/child athletes receive the best learning environment available?

Let me make my view clearer (on coaching). My team will win or lose a game based on their performance as well as the performance of their opponents. (They are also taught to appreciate the accomplishments of their opponents.)

Are there close calls that I believe an umpire misses and I do nothing? Yes, judgment calls are part of the game (in the situation I described, neither umpire saw the hit ball or whether it was fair or foul), but getting the play correct is the most important thing (this is to me what is fair for both teams), so if umpires get together and change a call that goes against my team - so be it. Have I discussed plays with umpires? Yes, many times, and have left a few of those discussions letting the umpires know that I believe they were wrong. Any team I coach knows going into the season my views on these subjects and I am usually very proud of them before, during and after the season is over.

And by the way, I dont ever tell umpires, that I dont know, that I also umpire, in my opinion its irrelevant to the current situation.

Baseball is a great tool to teach young men some of lifes lessons and I will continue coaching and umpiring as long as I enjoy either or both. (makes an old man feel young again) OK off my soap box!!!!!!!

[Rcichon]

I did not hear the word protest.

I heard "hollering from the dugout" which may or may not be a protest.

Of course, offense would have lost this protest were it lodged.

FWIW.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

So, if I have a kid running that is obviously out but called safe, I should get him called out?

Absolutely.

From the 2009 NFHS Baseball Rule Book, Points of Emphasis:

Originally Posted by Rule Book

GOOD SPORTING BEHAVIOR:
Umpires and coaches need to work together. Each contest is another opportunity
for coaches and umpires to teach not only baseball, but also model good
sporting behavior as well. The committee feels that the practice of attempting to
intimidate the other team before, during or after the game is not acceptable. The
positive values that are learned will serve the players long after their baseball
experience has concluded. Game situations typically provide a coach the opportunity
to identify a teachable moment to reinforce good sporting behavior.

As we all know, some things are more important than winning (sorry, Vince Lombardi).

[gslefeb]

"Cell Phone Mcghee could have changed his call if he liked and I would have not said a word."

"I was the coach. My job is not to get the call right. That was Cell Phone McGhee's job"

Except when he was thinking of changing the call and trying to get it right - you told him "Nope you can't.."


So knowing the U made an incorrect call and was thinking of changing it. You tried (and succeeded) to influence the umpire to make an incorrect call? I call that cheating.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

That is pretty close to the product I am getting as a consumer of these umpires except they are making more than twice the hourly wage that the Mcdonald's kid is making.

When I worked at McDonald's in the 1980's, I had free uniforms. I was paid for my training hours, too. I don't ever remember getting paid to attend an umpire clinic.

Just another example of someone who thinks that getting $25 for a 2 hour game equates to "$12.50 an hour". Never mind all the rest that goes into it.

The more you talk in this thread, the more I'm tempted to reach in my ball bag for a nice wedge of cheese to throw in your direction.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

When I worked at McDonald's in the 1980's, I had free uniforms. I was paid for my training hours, too. I don't ever remember getting paid to attend an umpire clinic.

Just another example of someone who thinks that getting $25 for a 2 hour game equates to "$12.50 an hour". Never mind all the rest that goes into it.

The more you talk in this thread, the more I'm tempted to reach in my ball bag for a nice wedge of cheese to throw in your direction.

This guy got a free shirt from the Athletic Association and he was wearing tan dockers and white Nikes. He got $37.50 for the game and free food. He also rode his bike there so he must live pretty close by. Now, I think he had to buy his own cell phone and from the looks of it, I think it was an I-phone. Right there is a major expense in Umpire equipment.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by umpjong

So you disagree with the NFHS in that umpires, coaches etc. must work together to assure that the student/child athletes receive the best learning environment available?

Originally Posted by mbyron

Absolutely.

From the 2009 NFHS Baseball Rule Book, Points of Emphasis:

Okay, why is everyone citing NFHS rules for this non-NFHS situation? I don't believe he was discussing a HS situation. So, this would apply how?

[mj]

I think I can speak from experience here as I umpire and also coach my 10 year old (call me a rat if you must). There is no way I'm treating another umpire that way. We all have to start somewhere whether it be a 9u game or freshman game.

I have also tried to get Cell Phone McGee to umpire these games but alot of times he won't because he heard stories about how others were treated by coaches and fans.

In my NFHS rule book, there are 2 pages in there of Code of Ethics for Coaches and a Code of Ethics for Officials. I think you should reread them both...

[SanDiegoSteve]

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mj

I think I can speak from experience here as I umpire and also coach my 10 year old (call me a rat if you must). There is no way I'm treating another umpire that way. We all have to start somewhere whether it be a 9u game or freshman game.

I have also tried to get Cell Phone McGee to umpire these games but alot of times he won't because he heard stories about how others were treated by coaches and fans.

In my NFHS rule book, there are 2 pages in there of Code of Ethics for Coaches and a Code of Ethics for Officials. I think you should reread them both...

I actually have not umpired HS ball in a few years and do not have those books. I can probably get a hold of one, though. Please refer me to the page that tells a coach to get his runners called out. I have the code of ethics for our league, and that is not in here.

I did not holler at this guy. I did not show him up. I did not argue with him. Nobody heard what I said to him other than him.

[jicecone]

Lets put this in perspective Joe.

San Diego Steve (Because you like him), goes to evaluate your next officiating assignment and without talking to you comes back on the forum and rips your perforamance apart. Talks about how you should be returning some of the pay you received and also has a few choice names for you because you are just not as good as him or will never live up to his expectations.

Even though we could all say that hey, if you read all of Steve's 7 posts about your performance you would eventually beneifit from the advise of another Sr. official.

Would this really be ethical of Steve?

Sometimes Joe, it is not the package that is important, its the presentation of it. You may be the worlds greatest umpire but when we first met at my car and you said "Hello A%%hole "my name is Joe I am your partner, my impression never got any better about you than that.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Lets put this in perspective Joe.

San Diego Steve (Because you like him), goes to evaluate your next officiating assignment and without talking to you comes back on the forum and rips your perforamance apart. Talks about how you should be returning some of the pay you received and also has a few choice names for you because you are just not as good as him or will never live up to his expectations.

Even though we could all say that hey, if you read all of Steve's 7 posts about your performance you would eventually beneifit from the advise of another Sr. official.

Would this really be ethical of Steve?

Sometimes Joe, it is not the package that is important, its the presentation of it. You may be the worlds greatest umpire but when we first met at my car and you said "Hello A%%hole "my name is Joe I am your partner, my impression never got any better about you than that.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

I encourage evaluation of my games. I seek out people to evaluate me. However, my umpiring skills have nothing to do with this situation.

Whether I have umpired 15 years or none, as a coach, I am not going to help an umpire call my guy out.

I am not an umpire when I am a coach and I am not a coach when I am an umpire.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

This guy got a free shirt from the Athletic Association and he was wearing tan dockers and white Nikes. He got $37.50 for the game and free food. He also rode his bike there so he must live pretty close by. Now, I think he had to buy his own cell phone and from the looks of it, I think it was an I-phone. Right there is a major expense in Umpire equipment.

Since when is it your place to determine if a person hird by the league is overpaid? Maybe he's there at $37.50 cause that's the only person they could get. 9U? Regular season? I wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot-pole.

(I have been known to do some LL games at this level for free, but that's different. Besides, we scare those coaches and if they act up we make them go away.)