Why not another? 9U play

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by umpjong

So you disagree with the NFHS in that umpires, coaches etc. must work together to assure that the student/child athletes receive the best learning environment available?

Originally Posted by mbyron

Absolutely.

From the 2009 NFHS Baseball Rule Book, Points of Emphasis:

Okay, why is everyone citing NFHS rules for this non-NFHS situation? I don't believe he was discussing a HS situation. So, this would apply how?

[mj]

I think I can speak from experience here as I umpire and also coach my 10 year old (call me a rat if you must). There is no way I'm treating another umpire that way. We all have to start somewhere whether it be a 9u game or freshman game.

I have also tried to get Cell Phone McGee to umpire these games but alot of times he won't because he heard stories about how others were treated by coaches and fans.

In my NFHS rule book, there are 2 pages in there of Code of Ethics for Coaches and a Code of Ethics for Officials. I think you should reread them both...

[SanDiegoSteve]

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mj

I think I can speak from experience here as I umpire and also coach my 10 year old (call me a rat if you must). There is no way I'm treating another umpire that way. We all have to start somewhere whether it be a 9u game or freshman game.

I have also tried to get Cell Phone McGee to umpire these games but alot of times he won't because he heard stories about how others were treated by coaches and fans.

In my NFHS rule book, there are 2 pages in there of Code of Ethics for Coaches and a Code of Ethics for Officials. I think you should reread them both...

I actually have not umpired HS ball in a few years and do not have those books. I can probably get a hold of one, though. Please refer me to the page that tells a coach to get his runners called out. I have the code of ethics for our league, and that is not in here.

I did not holler at this guy. I did not show him up. I did not argue with him. Nobody heard what I said to him other than him.

[mj]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I actually have not umpired HS ball in a few years and do not have those books. I can probably get a hold of one, though. Please refer me to the page that tells a coach to get his runners called out. I have the code of ethics for our league, and that is not in here.

I did not holler at this guy. I did not show him up. I did not argue with him. Nobody heard what I said to him other than him.

"The coach shall respect and support contest officials. The coach shall not indulge in conduct which would incite players or spectators against the officials. Public criticism of officials or players is unethical."

"Officials shall work with each other and their state associations in a constructive and cooperative manner."

How do you explain to the parents after the game when they ask you about that play? Do you just answer "not my fault that Cell Phone McGee doesn't know the rules." I just can't fathom that and I think I would lose alot of respect for any coach that feels that way.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mj

"The coach shall respect and support contest officials. The coach shall not indulge in conduct which would incite players or spectators against the officials. Public criticism of officials or players is unethical."

"Officials shall work with each other and their state associations in a constructive and cooperative manner."

How do you explain to the parents after the game when they ask you about that play? Do you just answer "not my fault that Cell Phone McGee doesn't know the rules." I just can't fathom that and I think I would lose alot of respect for any coach that feels that way.

Again, this was not an NFHS game.

As for your question: I was asked about the play by some players: Why did they call him safe? The 2B tagged him. I said: "You are right, he was tagged long before he got to the base. I have no idea why the umpire called him safe." It was completely true...at that time, I had no idea why Cell Phone McGhee had made such a terrible call.

As for the parents, we have a good group...an ex-pro athlete, an ex-Minor League and NCAA baseball umpire, and some others...I heard comments like this:

"I like how you do not argue with the umpires."
"I think it is good how you teach the kids to respect the umpires."
"I am very appreciative how you are constantly encouraging our players throughout the game."

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Again, this was not an NFHS game.

To justify your actions because this was not a FED game speaks volumes of your integrity and ethics. You're willing to lie, cheat and steal while coaching 9 year olds. I've never liked the term before but "rat" is a perfect description for you and your actions.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by waltjp

To justify your actions because this was not a FED game speaks volumes of your integrity and ethics. You're willing to lie, cheat and steal while coaching 9 year olds. I've never liked the term before but "rat" is a perfect description for you and your actions.

I did not lie, cheat or steal.

Now, the guy that took money for a job that he knew he could not do...some might say he was cheating and/or lying and/or stealing.

[TxUmp]

Paraphrasing Carl Childress:

"The reason for having umpires is to prevent either team from taking unfair advantage of the rules."

[jicecone]

Lets put this in perspective Joe.

San Diego Steve (Because you like him), goes to evaluate your next officiating assignment and without talking to you comes back on the forum and rips your perforamance apart. Talks about how you should be returning some of the pay you received and also has a few choice names for you because you are just not as good as him or will never live up to his expectations.

Even though we could all say that hey, if you read all of Steve's 7 posts about your performance you would eventually beneifit from the advise of another Sr. official.

Would this really be ethical of Steve?

Sometimes Joe, it is not the package that is important, its the presentation of it. You may be the worlds greatest umpire but when we first met at my car and you said "Hello A%%hole "my name is Joe I am your partner, my impression never got any better about you than that.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Lets put this in perspective Joe.

San Diego Steve (Because you like him), goes to evaluate your next officiating assignment and without talking to you comes back on the forum and rips your perforamance apart. Talks about how you should be returning some of the pay you received and also has a few choice names for you because you are just not as good as him or will never live up to his expectations.

Even though we could all say that hey, if you read all of Steve's 7 posts about your performance you would eventually beneifit from the advise of another Sr. official.

Would this really be ethical of Steve?

Sometimes Joe, it is not the package that is important, its the presentation of it. You may be the worlds greatest umpire but when we first met at my car and you said "Hello A%%hole "my name is Joe I am your partner, my impression never got any better about you than that.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

I encourage evaluation of my games. I seek out people to evaluate me. However, my umpiring skills have nothing to do with this situation.

Whether I have umpired 15 years or none, as a coach, I am not going to help an umpire call my guy out.

I am not an umpire when I am a coach and I am not a coach when I am an umpire.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

I encourage evaluation of my games. I seek out people to evaluate me. However, my umpiring skills have nothing to do with this situation.

Whether I have umpired 15 years or none, as a coach, I am not going to help an umpire call my guy out.

I am not an umpire when I am a coach and I am not a coach when I am an umpire.

I will never understand umpires who put on the coaching uniform and it's almost like they've never umpired or even heard the word integrity. You didn't just keep quiet, you essentially told the umpire "you called him safe, you can't change it now." One pound of cheese for the rat.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I will never understand umpires who put on the coaching uniform and it's almost like they've never umpired or even heard the word integrity. You didn't just keep quiet, you essentially told the umpire "you called him safe, you can't change it now." One pound of cheese for the rat.

The phrase "coach that also umpires" seems appropriate here.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I will never understand umpires who put on the coaching uniform and it's almost like they've never umpired or even heard the word integrity. You didn't just keep quiet, you essentially told the umpire "you called him safe, you can't change it now." One pound of cheese for the rat.

What does the adult on the cell phone collecting umpire fees get?

I did not tell him what he could and could not do. I made a flippant comment to a guy who had my money to do a job and was had made no effort to do that job properly.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Okay, why is everyone citing NFHS rules for this non-NFHS situation? I don't believe he was discussing a HS situation. So, this would apply how?

Oh, I see. Lying and cheating are acceptable until the players are age 15-18 and participate in a NFHS sanctioned contest?