How should I have handled this

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay. I'm wrong.

Children can and should talk to respectful, respectable adults the way those two addressed Mr. Washburn. According to you, Matt.

This shows the level of your integrity--making things up that I have never said.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

In what society is that brand of behavior welcome from kids? And what would you like us to call it as you curiously and assiduously defend the smart-a$$ed behavior of these two kids posing as umpires?

Tell me where I defended the behavior. I gave an explanation as to why they acted this way, but never defended it.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Joe,

You are a respectful and respectable adult, who chose to address two kids in a way that showed them more respect than they have earned,

Respect does not have to be earned. It is a right as a human being, until one loses that right through action, or gains more by virtue of action or position.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

... The last thing I want is a coach to come and ask a question, then tell me "I think it would be a good idea for you to look that up in your rules book later on." You're telling me "You need to learn the rules," no matter how nicely you've phrased it; since I haven't told you "You need to learn how to coach" - and, boy, many games offer up THAT thought in my head - then don't come telling me how to do my job.

Again, you asked for feedback in the OP, you got it.

You are applying adult standards and manly respectability to children who haven't earned a shred of it.

Joe's instinct was to make these two smart-a$$es aware of some of what they need to learn to merely function in the role that they are already pretending to fill and maybe help them stop cheating little kids with their shoddy, uninformed work. Any experienced umpire who offers any beginner some umpiring tips should be received respectfully and without hesitation.

An experienced adult umpire being approached at the car by a coach is an entirely different situation. For that, there is an established standard that is not in place for children posing as umpires.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay. I'm wrong.

Children can and should talk to respectful, respectable adults the way those two addressed Mr. Washburn. According to you, Matt.

In what society is that brand of behavior welcome from kids? And what would you like us to call it as you curiously and assiduously defend the smart-a$$ed behavior of these two kids posing as umpires?

Okay. Open question to all of you in the "these kids today, with their hair and their clothes, why you little ... mumble mumble five cents for a movie mumble mumble FDR mumble" group:

Is the pitchfork-and-torch reaction based on the response, or the age, of the umpires in question?

In other words: make these umpires my age (nearly 44), and try to replay the scenario in your head cleanly. Would you still harrumph as much, or would your responses to the OP been more of a "don't f--- with the umpires post-game about calls"? I believe it would be the latter.

Look, on this board on numerous occasions, as I said before, there are stories of Dad/Junior/Junior's Coach approaching an umpire at his car, or on his way to the lot, after a game. And we on the board have had the consensus of that being A Bad Thing.

If you hate the upcoming generations, fine - but just be honest and admit it influences your response here. (Like I said earlier, I have 2 teens of my own, and witnessing what's coming through the pipeline, with the MyFaceSpaceBook, and seemingly every kid acting like a wannabe gangsta, etc, etc, makes me worry about when that generation is in charge of my breathing tube one day. But I try not to knee-jerk about every last d@mn one of them.)

....and I'm not condoning whichever umpire yelled at jwwashburn as he walked away. I do think the "stop sign" and the "that's enough", while not the optimal response, probably, was still a response to the essential statement of "I know the rule, and maybe you should try learning the rules sometime" from a 'rat coach.' We all know that's what WE'D think if we'd been the umpires at the car.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Matt

This shows the level of your integrity--making things up that I have never said.



Tell me where I defended the behavior. I gave an explanation as to why they acted this way, but never defended it.

Oh.

It read as a defense. And I didn't quote you, but voiced my interpretation of your curious defense of these two.

I didn't question your integrity, so please don't misread something and then insult mine.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Okay. Open question to all of you in the "these kids today, with their hair and their clothes, why you little ... mumble mumble five cents for a movie mumble mumble FDR mumble" group:

Is the pitchfork-and-torch reaction based on the response, or the age, of the umpires in question?

In other words: make these umpires my age (nearly 44), and try to replay the scenario in your head cleanly. Would you still harrumph as much, or would your responses to the OP been more of a "don't f--- with the umpires post-game about calls"? I believe it would be the latter.

Look, on this board on numerous occasions, as I said before, there are stories of Dad/Junior/Junior's Coach approaching an umpire at his car, or on his way to the lot, after a game. And we on the board have had the consensus of that being A Bad Thing.

If you hate the upcoming generations, fine - but just be honest and admit it influences your response here. (Like I said earlier, I have 2 teens of my own, and witnessing what's coming through the pipeline, with the MyFaceSpaceBook, and seemingly every kid acting like a wannabe gangsta, etc, etc, makes me worry about when that generation is in charge of my breathing tube one day. But I try not to knee-jerk about every last d@mn one of them.)

....and I'm not condoning whichever umpire yelled at jwwashburn as he walked away. I do think the "stop sign" and the "that's enough", while not the optimal response, probably, was still a response to the essential statement of "I know the rule, and maybe you should try learning the rules sometime" from a 'rat coach.' We all know that's what WE'D think if we'd been the umpires at the car.

I'm astonished that you would infer all of this based on our opinion on the specific case of two smart-a$$ed kids in a youth baseball setting.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You are applying adult standards and manly respectability to children who haven't earned a shred of it.

Joe's instinct was to make these two smart-a$$es aware of some of what they need to learn to merely function in the role that they are already pretending to fill and maybe help them stop cheating little kids with their shoddy, uninformed work. Any experienced umpire who offers any beginner some umpiring tips should be received respectfully and without hesitation.

Wow. Seriously, you have some hostility issues with America's youth, mate.

One, I don't think Joe felt they were smart-asses, and they were "pretenders" and they were "cheating little kids" BEFORE he approached them - that sounds more like your emotions painting the post.

Two, no where in Joe's OP says that he approached them as an "experienced umpire" offering "umpiring tips." IIRC, he asked if could ask a question, but did not ID himself. So again, you're looking to just hammer these kids because they're, well, kids.

KF, if a coach - again, Joe was a COACH and not ID'd otherwise - had come to you and, in the course of the discussion, said "you should learn the rules" in so many words, would you have liked it, and said "why, I'll take that on board!"? Really?

An experienced adult umpire being approached at the car by a coach is an entirely different situation. For that, there is an established standard that is not in place for children posing as umpires.

Yeah, and it's called when-the-coach-comes-to-your-car-after-the-game-to-b!tch-you-tell-him-to-eff-off.

If this was truly meant to be a learning experience, go to the assignor or the UIC of the league, and voice concerns.

You're acting as though only those under 21 f--- up OBS calls. And you're acting like that scary guy at the end of the block who has a 40-year collection of balls, bikes, kites, etc. from the neighborhood children.

[bfoster]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It read as a defense. And I didn't quote you, but voiced my interpretation of your curious defense of these two.

Your interpretation was that Matt thinks these young men responded appropriately? You either didn't read what he said closely enough or you're just being disingenuous and disrespectful, which I find a bit ironic.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I'm astonished that you would infer all of this based on our opinion on the specific case of two smart-a$$ed kids in a youth baseball setting.

Well, without digging that hard, I can look at your posts 3, 11, 23, 28 and 33, at least to get a sense of that. Toss in some of SDS's posts, and I don't think my inference is that far off.

(And "two smart-a$$ed kids" sort of gives your stance away, don't you think? )

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

And you're acting like that scary guy at the end of the block who has a 40-year collection of balls, bikes, kites, etc. from the neighborhood children.

Hey, dont bring me into this fight.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Joe's instinct was to make these two smart-a$$es aware of some of what they need to learn to merely function in the role that they are already pretending to fill and maybe help them stop cheating little kids with their shoddy, uninformed work. Any experienced umpire who offers any beginner some umpiring tips should be received respectfully and without hesitation.

I see 2 mistakes in the OP. The 1st is the coach approaching the umpires post game. The 2nd is the reaction from those umpires. Mistakes on both sides.

Joe posted only 2 complaints about the umpires, so "cheating little kids with their shoddy, uninformed work" is not a valid statement and over the top. I'm sure I've kicked a couple in a game once but wouldnt describe my actions like you did.

And we all have heard a coach claim "but I'm an umpire, so.." and realize that its (true or not, mostly not) just a ploy to get his way. Good umpires that coach should know to leave their officials hat at home, and not try to use that to get their way. So in this sich, Joe wasnt an experienced umpire offering tips to beginners, he was a coach, plain and simple....

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Oh.

It read as a defense. And I didn't quote you, but voiced my interpretation of your curious defense of these two.

A more proper way to state your interpretation would have been, "It appears that you feel that the behavior exhibited by these two was appropriate," or something to that effect, maybe even "So you think these two jackasses were right?"

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I didn't question your integrity, so please don't misread something and then insult mine.

I didn't misread anything. This sentence is attributing a sentiment to me that is not mine (putting words in my mouth, if you will.)

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Children can and should talk to respectful, respectable adults the way those two addressed Mr. Washburn. According to you, Matt.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Hey, dont bring me into this fight.

Sorry. Sometimes, collateral damage may occur.

[jwwashburn]

I have had coaches respectfully approach me after a game about rules. I refer him to the UIC because the UIC has asked us to do so.

If it is a simple question and I know the coach (and I know the coach to be levelheaded, I sometimes will answer it if we are out of the earshot of other people.

I am 41 years old and I would have had no problem with a coach approaching me in the way that I approached these two guys. If I had kicked a rules interp. I certainly would have a lot more patience.

Joe

[jwwashburn]

I got photos of the two guys: