Why we umpires love baseball coaches--Part I.

[johnnyg08]

So are you saying that not only does the batter have a strike, but offense loses a stolen base on the foul tip? Would it be wrong to keep R1 at 2B since he had the base stolen?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

So are you saying that not only does the batter have a strike, but offense loses a stolen base on the foul tip? Would it be wrong to keep R1 at 2B since he had the base stolen?

I believe it would be up to the umpires judgment whether the running would have made it safely to 2b or not if the umpire did not make a mistake. HOWEVER, since the offense (ie HC @ 3b) caused the confusion I would consider that as well.

-Josh

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I believe it would be up to the umpires judgment whether the running would have made it safely to 2b or not if the umpire did not make a mistake. HOWEVER, since the offense (ie HC @ 3b) caused the confusion I would consider that as well.

-Josh

In general this is correct. If we're still talking about the OP, 2 points are worth noting in deciding how to fix the matter:

1. R1 had the base stolen, and the throw was behind him to F4.
2. The BASE UMPIRE, having heard the coach, told him to return to 1B because it was a foul ball. (And he did that having seen his partner signal a foul tip and a strike -- blows my mind.)

To fix #2, take into account #1 and put R1 on 2B. The pitch was a strike. Play ball.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In general this is correct. If we're still talking about the OP, 2 points are worth noting in deciding how to fix the matter:

1. R1 had the base stolen, and the throw was behind him to F4.
2. The BASE UMPIRE, having heard the coach, told him to return to 1B because it was a foul ball. (And he did that having seen his partner signal a foul tip and a strike -- blows my mind.)

To fix #2, take into account #1 and put R1 on 2B. The pitch was a strike. Play ball.

I agree no out but I disagree putting him on second. In effect base umpire THOUGHT it was foul and acted accordingly. That being the case you either treat this sitch. as a foul ball OR you don't and have an out. Can't have it both ways. Put runner back on first and play on.

[cc6]

There must be a FED rule that allows you to change the status of runners if they are put out due to umpire's error. There is no such rule in OBR.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by cc6

There must be a FED rule that allows you to change the status of runners if they are put out due to umpire's error. There is no such rule in OBR.

True, but there is precedent when a stealing runner was called "out" on ball 4, left the base, then was tagged again. The umpires put him back on second.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I agree no out but I disagree putting him on second. In effect base umpire THOUGHT it was foul and acted accordingly. That being the case you either treat this sitch. as a foul ball OR you don't and have an out. Can't have it both ways. Put runner back on first and play on.

By rule, you can't treat this as a foul ball. The ball was not batted.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by mbyron

By rule, you can't treat this as a foul ball. The ball was not batted.

Michael,

Huh?!?!

Sure it was. It was a "foul tip" which, by definition is "..a batted ball...".

JM

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by mbyron

By rule, you can't treat this as a foul ball. The ball was not batted.

Ok than you have an out.

[JRutledge]

Do not repeat something you did not originally call. This all would have been avoided if the umpire just called the play.

Peace

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I believe it would be up to the umpires judgment whether the running would have made it safely to 2b or not if the umpire did not make a mistake. HOWEVER, since the offense (ie HC @ 3b) caused the confusion I would consider that as well.

-Josh

yep for sure...

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I have to defend my partner in this case. I am known for have a pretty loud voice when necessary and the HC yelled "foul ball" pretty loud. It was a windy day, and my partner was sure that it was me yelling "foul ball". Remember, under NFHS rules, once an umpire declares a ball foul it is foul even if it is really fair. BUT, it was not an umpire that was yelling "foul ball", it was the HC. This whole fiasco started when the HC yelled "foul ball", and he put in runner in jeapordy (his runner stopped short of second base and turned back toward first base when his HC yelled "foul ball" not because my partner said anything to him, the runner was already heading back to first base) not my partner.

MTD, Sr.

[johnnyg08]

okay, well in that case, we send R1 back to 1B...he never reached 2B...if BU doesn't say anything and just stays with the ball, you can call him out w/o any course of argument...tough sitch...he simply screwed up...just like everybody else on this board.

[PeteBooth]

From your OP

he pointed to First base and told R1 to return to first base

For all practical purposes your partner thought that You said "Foul Ball" and acted accordingly by instructing R1 to retrun to first base where he was tagged out by the defense.


As stated in my original response your OP is similar to case play 10-2-3E and your partner's instruction to R1 is what placed R1 in jeopardy and therefore, the situation should have been rectified.

Pete Booth