Hijacked from Basketball Board... with a baseball twist

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE=Kevin Finnerty;562769]I never said ignore it. I said store it and beware of the guy and warn others.

I wouldn't tolerate a single peep out of a guy like that in public, but what he says in private is none of my business, if it is said in a locker room.

Kevin IMO you are missing the point

This is HS and at least from my experience HS Coaches are also TEACHERS.

Where do you draw the line?

Suppose you are working with an Afro American official, Asian official, Latin official etc. and the coach utters racial slurs about the official to his players

OR

This Coach makes a racial slur directly to one of his players.

I could go on and on

In General yes What's said in the locker-room stays in the locker-room but there is a limit

If it's "normal type cussing" no Problem

What's normal type cussing

"Hey Joe can you get the lead out of your a** when running to first base" or something along those lines.


Pete Booth

[Cub42]

First, HS and below, and to a certain extent college baseball is not the same game as Pro Ball. There are safety and sportsmanship rules used at those levels that do not apply to the pro game. In the pro game there are certain situations where we let the players settle things, and ways that we communicate that are not available to umpires in non pro games. That being said, trying to take action on information you heard while not in the same room might be difficult to rally support for. As for the comments about the Umpiring crew, keep that in mind and remember that when dealing with this rat. The language part is for the players/school admin/parents to handle. And here is why: If the players don't go to there parents or AD, more than likely they will keep quiet or deny it when questioned. On the field behavior is part of your jurisdiction.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Pete, this is obviously a complex issue, because I am normally one of the small percentage who speak up and/or stand up to anyone who I see victimizing a person or animal. I don't care what or who they are, they get a lesson.

But as an umpire, I can't penalize a guy and his players because I know he's a slimeball. I am going to possibly umpire a game or two this year for a school that has hired a coach that I have known for 12 years, and know for certain that he is a vile, wife-beating, child-beating, home-wrecking, player-assaulting coward a------. But I am going to walk out onto the field, and give his and his opponents' players and followers a safe, fair, respectful game like I always strive to give, irrespective of how tainted some coach is.

Now, in his particular case, when he turned up at that school, several of us notified the school's officials of the unique background of the guy they're hiring. But he's a the friend of a major league playing millionaire kid and his dad who rebuilt the school's ballpark, so that connection makes everything irrelevant to the school.

The greatest sin that is committed on the baseball playing young people of this nation is the way they go about picking coaches. Some of the coaches I have seen should be nowhere near the game, and others, like the guy I just described, should be nowhere near our young people. (In his case, he shouldn't even be around his own kids.) But you know what, Pete? The vast majority of young men actually rise above and tune out the B.S. from the worst of the worst that are screaming in their ear. I know it sounds harsh, but it's really true.

And this whole thing has to change. I have done and continue to do more than my part to change it where I live, because I love the game and I want it to go right for as many people as I can reach, but until real baseball men are coaching in the majority of our schools and leagues, this improper conduct and the mediocre baseball that results from it is bound to continue. It's sad, and MLB's half-hearted recognition of it is sinful.

[bobbybanaduck]

i expereinced something like this a few years back working indy ball. after the game the manager went on a tirade in his locker room about my partner. we shared a wall with them that was unfinished at the top. found out from one of the players the next day that he had pulled a chair over so he could get as close to the gap at the top of the wall as possible to yell into our room. sweeeeeeet.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I think we all agree that Little League and real baseball are two different worlds and profanity and agitation at the LL level is intolerable.

Many of us would argue that high school baseball and real baseball are two different worlds also. Profanity at the high school level is certainly not tolerated here, under any circumstance. When I was a probationary umpire back in the 80s, I told a high school coach who was arguing a call at second base that something or other was "bull****, and you know it." I got my as$ in a wringer over it and was warned by the board of directors for "swearing."

The point is that the high school coach is there to set an example for the young men he coaches to follow. Any ranting and raving with profanity involved needs to be reported. That coach knew exactly what he was doing, and that the umpires could hear every word. It is not eavesdropping when you are within earshot of an easily audible conversation.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Also, suppose you hear the coach say this to one of his players.

Jimmy the umpires are letting Tommy (the other teams F2) get away with "murder " on plays at the plate.

The next time you are on base I want you to "take out" Tommy

There is no place in HS sports for this kind of nonsense.





Pete Booth

So you would eject a coach before the act actually occured ? J agree there's no place for that type of coaching behavior in high school sports, but I don't believe I could eject the coach for something I overheard, especially since it was not on the field.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

But as an umpire, I can't penalize a guy and his players because I know he's a slimeball. I am going to possibly umpire a game or two this year for a school that has hired a coach that I have known for 12 years, and know for certain that he is a vile, wife-beating, child-beating, home-wrecking, player-assaulting coward a------. But I am going to walk out onto the field, and give his and his opponents' players and followers a safe, fair, respectful game like I always strive to give, irrespective of how tainted some coach is.

Now, in his particular case, when he turned up at that school, several of us notified the school's officials of the unique background of the guy they're hiring. But he's a the friend of a major league playing millionaire kid and his dad who rebuilt the school's ballpark, so that connection makes everything irrelevant to the school.

I find it impossible to believe that a school would hire such a guy as you describe, further impossible to believe that parents would allow their children to play for him and lastly, impossible to believe an umpire who knows all of this to be true and would ignore and umpire a game for this school.

this guy would get his a** whipped around here for showing his face, much less coaching.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I don't know where you live, but in Southern California, there are guys like him at several schools, and there is politics just as blatant as this at more than one school, and guys who are even more wildly abusive at many schools. There's a local JV guy who is the worst verbal abuser I have ever heard, and he's been at the same post for 20 years.

As for the coward I referred to: The guy whose place he took got implicated in drinking and weed smoking with some players. This is a major high school with several thousand students. If you can't believe it, then you should feel lucky to be free of it or free from the thought of it. I know the guy I spoke of in the community and even coached the son he once abused. His acts were fairly common knowledge. He abused his two sons right out of the game and then went to the local high school and sucked up to its most wealthy alumnus and that was it. Sorry you can't see it.

At another school, a former major leaguer rebuilt the school himself at $1 million-plus, and took over the program solely based on that. They just handed it to him with zero experience, no college education, and no real coaching or communications skills. He was a very good player, but didn't know three things about coaching. He was horrible, but solely based on his rebuilding the park, he was handed the program at a major high school in a very affluent area.

the real world around here. It's disgraceful, but not impossible.

So you wouldn't accept the assignment? Maybe I won't either. Maybe I won't get it, but it's almost a sure thing that I will. If I do, I will make sure that his players get the game they deserve, and not the one their coward coach deserves.

[Kevin Finnerty]

This is what I heard a coach scream at a kid while he got lit up: "You deserve to get knocked around like that! And I'm gonna' leave you out there to die!"

His father objected loudly to that kind of treatment. The coach said, "Get lost and take your pu$$y son with you!"

Only then did the UIC put him in the dugout and muzzle him. I begged God for him to open his mouth, so I could toss him, and he did and I did.

I went through all the channels you described, rather than meet him at his car and ask him what he has to say to me, like an uncivilized amateur might. That guy is still screaming at kids like that four years later as he will four years from now.

"You're killing this team!" ... "Can't you field a ground ball? Your sister can!" ... "You guys deserve to get killed. You stink!"

Those are some of his classics. JV coach at the school where we have our association meetings.

[CajunNewBlue]

well regarding the "crazy-a$$ed coaches you guys mention in the previous posts.... let me know where and when. I will gladly do his games. of course the mileage might be a little costly.

I do believe/I know they have coaches/dads/fans, who do and say the things mentioned. handle them accordingly, IMHO i use this rule.... if they say/do something that shocks me, I must act accordingly.... if they say/do something that doesn't shock me, I also must act accordingly.... its a judgment thing.

Happy New Years Y'all.. peace

[Cub42]

KF, one question. With this H/C's reputation and his on field behavior, how does he continue to be approved by the league/school? More puzzling to me is that parents would allow their kids to play on his team. I would think there would be a revolt by the parents who witness this treatment of their kids. I would offer this bit of advice to you on the subject of officiating games where you have a personal relationship with any of the participants. Perception becomes Reality.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

i expereinced something like this a few years back working indy ball. after the game the manager went on a tirade in his locker room about my partner. we shared a wall with them that was unfinished at the top. found out from one of the players the next day that he had pulled a chair over so he could get as close to the gap at the top of the wall as possible to yell into our room. sweeeeeeet.

And what did you do the next day (assuming the teams were still in town...)?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Cub42

KF, one question. With this H/C's reputation and his on field behavior, how does he continue to be approved by the league/school? More puzzling to me is that parents would allow their kids to play on his team. I would think there would be a revolt by the parents who witness this treatment of their kids. I would offer this bit of advice to you on the subject of officiating games where you have a personal relationship with any of the participants. Perception becomes Reality.

His on-field behavior is subtle (the screamer is another area guy). He's a mentally cruel guy who's a womanizer and in the past assaulted his sons in public and also shoved a couple of other kids in separate incidents in PONY. A few people spoke up when he showed up at this school and they did nothing but kill it. He managed to get through a couple seasons as an assistant at a junior college before that, but, and I'll say this again, a player rebuilt the field and he and his dad wanted the guy as the coach, so he's the coach. I don't know why so many people think that politics don't play a part in who coaches some of these teams.

And generally (and I have seen every perspective, including parent), most parents do one of two things: They shut up and take it; or they pull their kid and go to another school.

I'm just trying to make a statement that baseball coaching in America at the high school level is deplorable and there are some glaring cases where people are all but forced to take it or don't play. Baseball dreams are shattered every day by some of these true rats.

And what part do you disagree with Steve?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Okay, fine.

I really do what I do for the right reasons. I respect the game more than you can imagine. I don't know why you are painting me otherwise.

I am also a realist, so I guess that makes me hard for some to relate to.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

And what part do you disagree with Steve?

I think I pretty much outlined my position in my post, but for one thing, I disagree with the notion that hearing intentionally directed profanity through a known flimsy, thin-walled building, which is intended to piss off the umpire, is eavesdropping. This behavior should not be tolerated on the high school level. The kids are just that. Kids. So what they hear that language all the time. They shouldn't hear it from their adult supervisors. If you ignore the behavior, you only encourage it. The coach who pulled this asinine stunt should be at the very least reprimanded and warned to knock it off.