Hijacked from Basketball Board... with a baseball twist

[TussAgee11]

Perhaps I'm fighting a losing battle here, and hopefully it is because I can't convey what I mean.

Here is the baseball sitch. Let's say you got a rain delay, teams head across the field back to the building. You get to your dressing room as well, only to hear the home coach through the paper thin walls railing his team with profanity, some of which is directed at you and pard.

I would advocate for ignoring it and nailing him the first chance he gives you after the delay. If we don't get back out there, I'm calling assignor and letting him know what happened for the continuation, so he can talk to the new crew if he wishes.

Some would advocate ejecting him from the game as soon as he steps foot back onto the field, directly for his actions in the locker room. I don't like it, myself. Seems like a battle an official can't win.

Thoughts?

[Kevin Finnerty]

I played and I coached and I scouted and I was in a few clubhouses in other capacities.

What goes on in the locker room stays there. Period. And that goes for the fruits of eavesdropping. To act on it is beyond unprofessional. To beware of the guy and to warn others is normal and almost expected behavior, but you publicly kill anything and everything you overheard as far as any public response.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Perhaps I'm fighting a losing battle here, and hopefully it is because I can't convey what I mean.

Here is the baseball sitch. Let's say you got a rain delay, teams head across the field back to the building. You get to your dressing room as well, only to hear the home coach through the paper thin walls railing his team with profanity, some of which is directed at you and pard.

I would advocate for ignoring it and nailing him the first chance he gives you after the delay. If we don't get back out there, I'm calling assignor and letting him know what happened for the continuation, so he can talk to the new crew if he wishes.

Some would advocate ejecting him from the game as soon as he steps foot back onto the field, directly for his actions in the locker room. I don't like it, myself. Seems like a battle an official can't win.

Thoughts?

This isn't going to matter in terms of my immediate action, but what level?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Matt

This isn't going to matter in terms of my immediate action, but what level?

My thought as well. For FED we have an additional option short of ejecting.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I played and I coached and I scouted and I was in a few clubhouses in other capacities.

What goes on in the locker room stays there. Period. And that goes for the fruits of eavesdropping. To act on it is beyond unprofessional. To beware of the guy and to warn others is normal and almost expected behavior, but you publicly kill anything and everything you overheard as far as any public response.

This sounds like the coach who yells about the umpires in the dugout and then claims the umpire has rabbit ears when he acts on it. It isn't rabbit ears when he's essentially yelling at you.

Let's take it a step further. The coach knows the walls are paper thin and spends 15 minutes profanely ranting about the officials, calling them cheaters, telling the kids that the umpires are stealing their chance to win, etc.

In a high school environment, is there a line here that can get crossed and get the umpires involved?

[PeteBooth]

I do not agree especially in a HS environment

If you are the parent of one of those kids on the team wouldn't you want to know what kind of 'stuff" is being taugt.

HS coaches for the most part are also teachers and should be teaching the kis about life THROUGH sports.

Also, suppose you hear the coach say this to one of his players.

Jimmy the umpires are letting Tommy (the other teams F2) get away with "murder " on plays at the plate.

The next time you are on base I want you to "take out" Tommy

There is no place in HS sports for this kind of nonsense.

It's one thing if the coach is giving strategies etc. and says "Hey guys let's try the "skunk in the outfield play" or something along those lines then I perfectly agree "what is said in the locker room stays there" with regard to strategies of the game BUT

when a coach is telling his players that the officials are cheating or instructing one of his players to possibly cause harm to another player is IMO crossing the line and should be reported.

Pete Booth

[ozzy6900]

What goes on in the locker room is none of our business! If you want to inform your assignor and/or "red line" this school, fine. But you have no business saying anything to anyone else about this. There is no "rule" for this, it is just common courtesy - just like when you are with your buddies, you yap and curse about a coach.

[UmpTTS43]

I would tend to make a note of it mentally, and put it in my "tool box" so to speak. If "Tommy" did get taken out, by chance, player and coach are gone and what I heard will probably be in my report. I have talked about coaches and some players myself between myself and other umps. Should I do it? Probably not, but it does happen. Lockeroom rants stay there, but I will have my mental notebook available for the rest of that game. If I feel that someone's safety is in jeapordy, I will pull coach aside, prior to resuming, and let him know about the conversation I happened to have heard while in the lockeroom. There are more times than we care to admit that teams are told we are the reason for their failure. Heck, I cost at teams at least half their games I officiate it seems. Who hasn't had the discussion with your partner about how coach A is a real pr*ck and will be on a real short leash today? I have had partners actually tell me "I think I'm going to dump someone today" prior to the game. If it happens and I think my partner did it to satisfy his whim, then I will take postgame actions myself.

Giddie up Tangent.

Bottom line, what is said in the lockeroom tends to stay in the lockeroom, until it affects my ability to provide the service I am hired for.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This sounds like the coach who yells about the umpires in the dugout and then claims the umpire has rabbit ears when he acts on it. It isn't rabbit ears when he's essentially yelling at you.

Let's take it a step further. The coach knows the walls are paper thin and spends 15 minutes profanely ranting about the officials, calling them cheaters, telling the kids that the umpires are stealing their chance to win, etc.

In a high school environment, is there a line here that can get crossed and get the umpires involved?

Absolutely not. It is inside the locker room. It stays there. Be a pro.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

What goes on in the locker room is none of our business! If you want to inform your assignor and/or "red line" this school, fine. But you have no business saying anything to anyone else about this. There is no "rule" for this, it is just common courtesy - just like when you are with your buddies, you yap and curse about a coach.

Okay? The man's right. And when he's right, he's usually very, very right.

The game is the game, irrespective of everything, including the level of play. If it's going on in public, you are responsible for it. In private, store it away if you want, but it stays there. Period.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Absolutely not. It is inside the locker room. It stays there. Be a pro.

I may not eject the guy from the game, but I would not hesitate to send a sportsmanship report to the state office. As a parent, I would not want my daughter subjected to that kind of behavior and/or language. For me to sit idly by while minor children are subjected to that would not sit well with me.

BTW, I'm not a pro, just a little, old HS umpire.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

The game is the game, irrespective of everything

Of all the things you've said, this one is the most wrong. A Little League game is not a college game and a LL coach yelling at/around 10 year olds like this would be much different than a college coach.

[CajunNewBlue]

If its HS and below... coach is gone and paperwork is filed to both the state and the AD.. IMHO its your/ours (as an official) OBLIGATION to make sure this happens.
Especially if its HS, the coach is a TEACHER acting in a coaching capacity (most times, unless they are CECP) and using profanity is inexcusable no matter where they are in my jurisdiction. (sight and sound) and on school board property.
But, y'all keep ignoring it (those of you that do)... the world seems to be a better place for it.
Don't get me wrong I can f*cking cuss with the best of them, when im kicking back with the adults.... drinking an adult beverage and discussing the days game.
But, when i'm on/near/around the field, I dress professionally, I act professionally and I talk/communicate professionally.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Of all the things you've said, this one is the most wrong. A Little League game is not a college game and a LL coach yelling at/around 10 year olds like this would be much different than a college coach.

Okay, the game is not the game in Little League. You changed the subject in order to tell me I'm wrong. Nice twist. No need to strain yourself like that just to start an argument.

We were obviously talking about high school and college, which is where the codes apply. If you want to discuss the topic and differ, fine.

Locker Room. That's the key, here. Locker Room.

I think we all agree that Little League and real baseball are two different worlds and profanity and agitation at the LL level is intolerable.

But, that's not the subject here.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

If its HS and below... coach is gone and paperwork is filed to both the state and the AD.. IMHO its your/ours (as an official) OBLIGATION to make sure this happens.
Especially if its HS, the coach is a TEACHER acting in a coaching capacity (most times, unless they are CECP) and using profanity is inexcusable no matter where they are in my jurisdiction. (sight and sound) and on school board property.
But, y'all keep ignoring it (those of you that do)... the world seems to be a better place for it.
Don't get me wrong I can f*cking cuss with the best of them, when im kicking back with the adults.... drinking an adult beverage and discussing the days game.
But, when i'm on/near/around the field, I dress professionally, I act professionally and I talk/communicate professionally.

I never said ignore it. I said store it and beware of the guy and warn others.

I wouldn't tolerate a single peep out of a guy like that in public, but what he says in private is none of my business, if it is said in a locker room. But if I thought I heard that he was harming a young person, he would be dealing with me before any police, parent or other official. And when the police did come, they would be providing him relief from me.

Cussing coaches are a part of sports and life. Baseball's a little more refined than football, but it's still part of it and will remain part of it. Baseball makes young men grow up sooner, like anything that requires such toughness. Hard-nosed and profane coaches are part of that toughening.

I, for one, cuss in everyday life--almost always needlessly. But I virtually never cussed as a coach (youth or adult), nor did I ever browbeat or demean a young person. I just don't have a need to. And I never cuss as an umpire. (Your last line says it all.) But, let's be real. It happens, and it is usually not really harming anyone. It shouldn't start until college or the minors, but it also exists in high school.

(The earlier Little League analogy gets sillier by the moment.)