Let their mistakes work for you

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by L.A. Umpire Guy

Not when it is delivered in the egocentric, imperious and unprofessional manner in which he often delivers it. He excludes people in order to feel or appear more prominent.

Well, this noble and honorable vocation needs new members. And new members are more likely to appear and be willing to endure the sacrifice and devotion if they are welcomed and not demeaned and shunned. This Tim C. guy is just as glaring a symbol of what is wrong with umpiring as he is a shining example of what is right.

Well, you may as well add me to that list too, then! Nothing is egotistical or offensive unless it is accepted that way. But then, in today's "Oooo, please don't hurt my feelings" society of today, I just don't know anymore!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Well, you may as well add me to that list too, then!

Don't worry Ozzy, you are already on that list!

[johnnyg08]

Nothing is egotistical or offensive unless it is accepted that way.


You don't really believe that do you?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Nothing is egotistical or offensive unless it is accepted that way.


You don't really believe that do you?

Absolutely, but unless you are above the age of 50, you wouldn't understand. Those of us raised before the "Me" era learned how to do this because we were direct products of those that lived through a depression. Not many people today could survive that, now could they?

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Well, you may as well add me to that list too, then! Nothing is egotistical or offensive unless it is accepted that way. But then, in today's "Oooo, please don't hurt my feelings" society of today, I just don't know anymore!

I am as thick-skinned as any person you will ever see or know. I am speaking out principally on behalf of others, as usual. And Tim C.'s approach to umpires and umpiring is egotistical and offensive by normal standards.

And for the record, Ozzy, I find you markedly more real, and your approach easier to digest than the vaunted Tim C. (And that comes from a 50-year-old who was raised by Depression-era folks.)

[johnnyg08]

Everybody was in the same boat during the depression...everybody was poor...you lived through it because you didn't know any other way...doesn't mean you aren't tough as nails by any means...but saying whatever you want to people, then saying well, "I can't help it if you're offended, I say what I want, how you interpret it is your problem"...has nothing to do with the "me" generation...if you're a prick, you're a prick...no matter how old you are...(and I don't know you sir, but in our discussions on here, you seem to be a pretty decent guy)...but I disagree with you when you say that it's all in how somebody chooses to interpret something...you can't totally absolve yourself or anybody else of what you say...simply because you didn't intend for it to offend somebody...certainly we can't and will never please everybody...but people your age also probably know about respecting your elders and my grandparents taught me that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all...that's coming from a WWII vet, depression surviving, tax paying, father of 8, grandfather of many more,...so I guess if he's off base...then I'm okay with being off base.

[griff901c]

A LONG time ago I made the leap from kiddie ball to the hs level. AT my first assignment this old crusty guy from the association was sent to watch. I spotted him around the 3rd inning and i proceeded to show him my chops.

I had a great game...smooth pivot onto the infield...lots of hustle..etc.
After the game my partner introduces him to me, and I can hardly wait to ask......"did you see anything I need to work on? Got any advise?'

" I'm glad you asked"...." best advise I can give you is have a garage sale and sell your gear". " Nice to meet ya" and walks away.

Now I don't know whether to smile...or kick his old ***. So I go home thinking wtf is this? What makes this guy think he is so good? I'm younger...quicker... and a lot better looking for sure...wtf?

I have done tons of games before this...again wtf? So I go see him work..and the little, intangible thing start to rise and I see I've got a long way to go. So I watch, I listen, I ask questions...and get smart *** answers..but I don't get butt-sore...I listen.I don't say" well I was taught to do".......I knew I was being taught....

If you check my past posts you will see I don't list my "credentials" as to say look at me, I've done...blah-blah. But this time I will say...fastforward.3-4 yrs........This old guy picks me to work ( my first) NCS 3aFinal at the Oakland Coliseum. I am so stoked.......so I ask him..."why did you bust my balls way back when?'

He says," I just wanted to see if you got your feelings hurt and to see if you could learn" " I don't suffer fools and you might have been one!" That was almost 13 yrs ago. I work NCS every year,been out of state a couple times...big deal.The point is I love my work. I want to be one of the best..so I learn.

As stated in another thread, I would jump at the chance to work with Tee..JRutledge..Pete Booth..because...I know I could learn SOMETHING...we all can learn something. These men don't suffer fools. They will teach..but you must learn. These are no nonsense umpires, who make the right call, whether it's popular or not.As it should be.

There are alot of posts along the line of " I got in trouble because I called...insert sitch...and they didn't like it" So what? If your working with me and you don't call it...first time not a big problem at all....second time we have a big problem.There will be no third time because I won't work with a guy who won't work at his craft. One who decides he wants everyone on the yard to like him.

On my yard I get along with most people...but I have only one friend out there.My partner. He might not be my best friend...but my friend he is.

While I'm on the topic of friends. I like to think that RPatrino is my friend. We haven't worked together in a long time, but I would in a heartbeat.

Now Bob...tell the truth...remember the first time we worked together and you asked.." Got any tips"..and I said " Yes I do..have a garage sale and....."

griff

[canadaump6]

Isn't that a bit rude to tell another umpire to have a garage sale and then just walk away? That lack of communication and manners is not justifiable in my opinion, no matter what the circumstances.

[griff901c]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Isn't that a bit rude to tell another umpire to have a garage sale and then just walk away? That lack of communication and manners is not justifiable in my opinion, no matter what the circumstances.

I guess I come from a place where such behavior doesn't send grown men into a hissy fit.

Reread my post...I was perplexed..but instead of thinking what a rude person this guy is, I wondered how good is he? I am quite comfortable in my masculinity so I wasn't insulted. My work may have been insulted, but I wasn't. When I saw how good he really was, I realised that although he may be harsh, he knows of what he speaks.Busting balls is a side bar...a personality trait of his( of which I too relish I love a good ball-busting).

Ever run across a person who just wants to push your buttons..just to see what you'll do? Now if you get all twisted up and you can't take it, ok. No fun there because now if he says something to that type it's not fun anymore.
That's being rude. I agree rude is not good.

I know we are for the most part very nice guys here...don't beat our wives..kick the dog... but some of us need to lighten up.

griff

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Isn't that a bit rude to tell another umpire to have a garage sale and then just walk away? That lack of communication and manners is not justifiable in my opinion, no matter what the circumstances.

I fully understand and agree with most of what Griff stated, and all of what canada ump said in this quote.

Anyone who treats another human being like you were treated is out of line, period. Your treating it as a stepping stone rather than a pothole is commendable.

But umpiring is hard enough and costly enough at the beginning that cruel and egocentric experts and evaluators are far more often destructive than helpful. It's also that way in parenting, coaching or other forms of teaching.

We need more good umpires to join and stick in the ranks, and fewer abusive, self-aggrandizing pedants chasing them off.

[lawump]

There were two types of persons at my umpire school in 1997.

There were the "Tim C" types, and there was everyone else.

On the first day of school, every instructor was a "Tim C" type, and every student was an "everyone else".

On the last day of school, every instructor was a "Tim C" type, a few students were "Tim C" types, and most students were still "everyone else".

The few students at the end who had become "Tim C" types were also packing to go to PBUC.

I hope to GOD that all the people who are posting in this thread about Tim C's "attitude" AREN'T planning to go to umpire school anytime in the future.

My chief instructor at umpire school, Jeff Nelson's comments, make Tim C's look like Mr. compassionate. (And I can say, emphatically, after getting "in the game" that Jeff is one of the game's truly good guys.)

[waltjp]

There is a difference between attending a school and being told straight what you're doing wrong and asking an evaluator for comments following a game.

The guy Griff described is just a dick.

Do you really think the Griff wouldn't have worked on A, B and C if the evaluator mentioned he needs work on A, B and C?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Isn't that a bit rude to tell another umpire to have a garage sale and then just walk away? That lack of communication and manners is not justifiable in my opinion, no matter what the circumstances.

There are different ways of teaching, and different ways of learning. It worked in this instance. It might not have worked had the umpire been (someone like) you or had the teacher been someone like you.

If you don't like what (insert name here) has to say, then read it and forget it. If you like what (insert name here) has to say, then read it and apply it.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by lawump

There were two types of persons at my umpire school in 1997.

There were the "Tim C" types, and there was everyone else.

On the first day of school, every instructor was a "Tim C" type, and every student was an "everyone else".

On the last day of school, every instructor was a "Tim C" type, a few students were "Tim C" types, and most students were still "everyone else".

The few students at the end who had become "Tim C" types were also packing to go to PBUC.

I hope to GOD that all the people who are posting in this thread about Tim C's "attitude" AREN'T planning to go to umpire school anytime in the future.

My chief instructor at umpire school, Jeff Nelson's comments, make Tim C's look like Mr. compassionate. (And I can say, emphatically, after getting "in the game" that Jeff is one of the game's truly good guys.)

There's a difference, though. I first had the pleasure of talking to Jeff when I was in my teens. He knows there's a time and place for everything.

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

Some parents mistreat and browbeat their children, because it is what their parents did and it seemed to work for them.

It does work--for a very small percentage of human beings.