Score the run

[tballump]

As each runner and umpires know prior to the batter hitting the ball, the appropriate play in this case is to first base to start with, since this will negate any runs scored due to the rule about the batter being put out at first base for the 3rd out (first rule of baseball). However, in this case the 3rd baseman elects to use (remember he has a choice) the "tag play" which creates a "time play" situation on a non-forced runner and hopes he makes the tag prior the runner touching home plate. Since the fielder elects this choice to make the 3rd out, it is too bad that after making the tag for the 3rd out he now remembers the first rule of baseball and throws to first and gets the slow batter runner for a 4th out. This 4th out is not recognized in this situation. Not our fault fielder forgot the first rule of baseball, and decided on the tag play option for a legitimate 3rd out. However, since the homeplate umpire has ruled the runner from 3rd scored before the tag at 3rd on the runner from 2nd, the run scores on the time play. Now, if the batter runner never advanced to 1st for whatever reason (runner forgets first rule of baseball) or over-ran 1st and on appeal is called out that is where the 4th out interpretation would come into play and now the 4th out is recognized and the run is wiped off the scorebook. However, for more help on this topic, if Fitzy was consulted, it would seem whatever he said would stand since he has a more intricate knowlegde of the rules and interpretations for these types of "knotty problems". Also, I do not know if Chris Jaksa and his partner(sorry I forget his name) are on any posts, but if they are, I would think they might could add some intelligent input on this particular play situation and give some insite into what is and what is not and why, like Dr. Steitz used to do in basketball. Anyway this is just my 2 cents as you guys would say, and I am just a rookie at these posts and always will be since I am just a tballump and my knowlege, unlike yours is limited (maybe I shouldn't have commented at all and just lurked). Seems like several of the umps and moderators here are on top of the game and its rules and have lots of experience and maybe they could contact Chris Jacksa or Rick Darby (I remembered?) for extra insight, but it looks like they are on top of this anyway.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by tballump

As each runner and umpires know prior to the batter hitting the ball, the appropriate play in this case is to first base to start with, since this will negate any runs scored due to the rule about the batter being put out at first base for the 3rd out (first rule of baseball). However, in this case the 3rd baseman elects to use (remember he has a choice) the "tag play" which creates a "time play" situation on a non-forced runner and hopes he makes the tag prior the runner touching home plate. Since the fielder elects this choice to make the 3rd out, it is too bad that after making the tag for the 3rd out he now remembers the first rule of baseball and throws to first and gets the slow batter runner for a 4th out. This 4th out is not recognized in this situation. Not our fault fielder forgot the first rule of baseball, and decided on the tag play option for a legitimate 3rd out. However, since the homeplate umpire has ruled the runner from 3rd scored before the tag at 3rd on the runner from 2nd, the run scores on the time play. Now, if the batter runner never advanced to 1st for whatever reason (runner forgets first rule of baseball) or over-ran 1st and on appeal is called out that is where the 4th out interpretation would come into play and now the 4th out is recognized and the run is wiped off the scorebook. However, for more help on this topic, if Fitzy was consulted, it would seem whatever he said would stand since he has a more intricate knowlegde of the rules and interpretations for these types of "knotty problems". Also, I do not know if Chris Jaksa and his partner(sorry I forget his name) are on any posts, but if they are, I would think they might could add some intelligent input on this particular play situation and give some insite into what is and what is not and why, like Dr. Steitz used to do in basketball. Anyway this is just my 2 cents as you guys would say, and I am just a rookie at these posts and always will be since I am just a tballump and my knowlege, unlike yours is limited (maybe I shouldn't have commented at all and just lurked). Seems like several of the umps and moderators here are on top of the game and its rules and have lots of experience and maybe they could contact Chris Jacksa or Rick Darby (I remembered?) for extra insight, but it looks like they are on top of this anyway.

1) Try using paragraphs.

2) It's Chris Jaksa and Rick Roder.

[tballump]

Thanks for the help and name correction.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by tballump

As each runner and umpires know prior to the batter hitting the ball, the appropriate play in this case is to first base to start with, since this will negate any runs scored due to the rule about the batter being put out at first base for the 3rd out (first rule of baseball). However, in this case the 3rd baseman elects to use (remember he has a choice) the "tag play" which creates a "time play" situation on a non-forced runner and hopes he makes the tag prior the runner touching home plate. Since the fielder elects this choice to make the 3rd out, it is too bad that after making the tag for the 3rd out he now remembers the first rule of baseball and throws to first and gets the slow batter runner for a 4th out. This 4th out is not recognized in this situation. Not our fault fielder forgot the first rule of baseball, and decided on the tag play option for a legitimate 3rd out. However, since the homeplate umpire has ruled the runner from 3rd scored before the tag at 3rd on the runner from 2nd, the run scores on the time play. Now, if the batter runner never advanced to 1st for whatever reason (runner forgets first rule of baseball) or over-ran 1st and on appeal is called out that is where the 4th out interpretation would come into play and now the 4th out is recognized and the run is wiped off the scorebook. However, for more help on this topic, if Fitzy was consulted, it would seem whatever he said would stand since he has a more intricate knowlegde of the rules and interpretations for these types of "knotty problems". Also, I do not know if Chris Jaksa and his partner(sorry I forget his name) are on any posts, but if they are, I would think they might could add some intelligent input on this particular play situation and give some insite into what is and what is not and why, like Dr. Steitz used to do in basketball. Anyway this is just my 2 cents as you guys would say, and I am just a rookie at these posts and always will be since I am just a tballump and my knowlege, unlike yours is limited (maybe I shouldn't have commented at all and just lurked). Seems like several of the umps and moderators here are on top of the game and its rules and have lots of experience and maybe they could contact Chris Jacksa or Rick Darby (I remembered?) for extra insight, but it looks like they are on top of this anyway.

cripes, you expect us to decipher all this?

[SAump]

Originally Posted by tballump

As each runner and umpires know prior to the batter hitting the ball, the appropriate play in this case is to first base to start with, since this will negate any runs scored due to the rule about the batter being put out at first base for the 3rd out (first rule of baseball). However, in this case the 3rd baseman elects to use (remember he has a choice) the "tag play" which creates a "time play" situation on a non-forced runner and hopes he makes the tag prior the runner touching home plate. Since the fielder elects this choice to make the 3rd out, it is too bad that after making the tag for the 3rd out he now remembers the first rule of baseball and throws to first and gets the slow batter runner for a 4th out. This 4th out is not recognized in this situation. Not our fault fielder forgot the first rule of baseball, and decided on the tag play option for a legitimate 3rd out. However, since the homeplate umpire has ruled the runner from 3rd scored before the tag at 3rd on the runner from 2nd, the run scores on the time play.

Now, if the batter runner never advanced to 1st for whatever reason (runner forgets first rule of baseball) or over-ran 1st and on appeal is called out that is where the 4th out interpretation would come into play and now the 4th out is recognized and the run is wiped off the scorebook. However, for more help on this topic, if Fitzy was consulted, it would seem whatever he said would stand since he has a more intricate knowlegde of the rules and interpretations for these types of "knotty problems". Also, I do not know if Chris Jaksa and his partner(sorry I forget his name) are on any posts, but if they are, I would think they might could add some intelligent input on this particular play situation and give some insite into what is and what is not and why, like Dr. Steitz used to do in basketball. Anyway this is just my 2 cents as you guys would say, and I am just a rookie at these posts and always will be since I am just a tballump and my knowlege, unlike yours is limited (maybe I shouldn't have commented at all and just lurked). Seems like several of the umps and moderators here are on top of the game and its rules and have lots of experience and maybe they could contact Chris Jacksa or Rick Darby (I remembered?) for extra insight, but it looks like they are on top of this anyway.

Where is the rule citation, a case play, etc., for this ruling?
How can the umpire justify allowing the run to score?
How can the umpire justify not recognizing an obvious 4th out?
J/R 10-IV!

[bobbybanaduck]

from the OP:

"BR is 1/2 way to 1B "when the tag of R2 is made", BR kicks the dirt and heads towards his 3B dugout to fetch his glove and hat."

i would entertain the desertion scenario if, and only if, the b/r immediately went to the dugout or to his defensive position after hitting the ball, making no attempt whatsoever at going to 1B. in the OP, he was 1/2 way to first when the tag was made. the tag ended the inning and removed the requirement for him to advance to 1B...which means he can no longer desert or abandon anything cuz the inning is over.

[kopan99]

5.07 When three offensive players are legally put out, that team takes the field and the opposing team becomes the offensive team (side retired) [assumption being that the ball is dead between innings?]

2.00 An APPEAL is an act of a fielder in claiming a violation of the playing rules by the offensive team. [An appeal can only be made based on a violation of baserunning rules in 7.10 a-d. Failing to reach first base during a fielders choice putout is not a violation of the baserunning rules.]

Rules 7.10 a through d lists the four instances that can be appealed (a-fly ball tag up; b-missed base; c-overrun and return to first base; d-miss home base).

Rule 7.10 NOTE recognizes a fourth out ONLY if an infraction occurs before the third out. The batter/runner not reaching first before the third out is not an infraction, because baserunning appeals can only be made in accordance with infractions 7.10 a, b, c, or d.

If the batter/runner has passed and missed first BEFORE the runner (R2) was tagged for the third out, then that would be an infraction BEFORE the third out, allowing an appeal to be made for a fourth out (no run scored).