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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 07:08pm
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I like to throw this story around every few years to get some thoughts. Many here will not have heard this story.

September 20, 1997, I have the plate for game 7 of the top Men's league in our area. The winner goes to the National Championships (the next season). Great game, tied at 3 after nine innings.

Into the bottom of the 11th, bases loaded, 2 outs and yes, a full count. Batter hits a mammoth Grand Slam to win the game.....but it's not THAT easy.

The one lesson I take from this is to ensure you keep the plate area clear.

Runner from 3rd base is running home, jumping up and down. As he reaches the plate, he jumps into the waiting arms of his fellow players. One guy finally drops him. You guessed it, the runer never touched the plate. He was dropped " a few inches" from the plate. He MAY have touched it, but there are so many players there, who knows? Well, the rest of the players circle the bases and by the time the batter gets to the plate, there are lots of people on the field.

By this time, I and my partners are already at the gate heading for the beer.

Not so fast. The visiting coach is screaming for an appeal. I keep walking. The beer tasted great.

So, what would YOU have done? And WHY?

For my money, I don't give a rat's *** if R3 missed the plate by a few inches. First, it is my fault for not keeping the area clear.

Secondly, if you give up a game-winning grand slam, walk off the field and congratulate your opponents.

Thoughts? This has always sparked an interesting debate.

For the record, the official response at the time was "Ian, I couldn't tell if he missed it with all of those players around."

Blaine
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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 07:58pm
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I would hope that I'd put a body between me and anyone coming in the dirt circle. In your situation, I'd have to make a judgment on who seemed most zealous. A classic lose/lose. Although, the double whammy of players in the circle AND a miss of the base....

They're not gonna learn if you don't make that call. You are making it tougher for the rest of us. Can't honestly say in the heat of the moment, I wouldn't do the same.

D
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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 08:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by NSump
This has always sparked an interesting debate.

Blaine
No debate here Blaine, have another beer.
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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 08:16pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by D-Man
I would hope that I'd put a body between me and anyone coming in the dirt circle. In your situation, I'd have to make a judgment on who seemed most zealous. A classic lose/lose. Although, the double whammy of players in the circle AND a miss of the base....

They're not gonna learn if you don't make that call. You are making it tougher for the rest of us. Can't honestly say in the heat of the moment, I wouldn't do the same.

D
Here is the issue. On a written test, we have a 3rd out on appeal. In reality, the HR ended the game. Did the home team, which 'won" when the batter battled and hit the grand slam, gain an advantage not intended by the rules? Did the rule makers intend for this situation to be appealed?

Carl earlier started a thread about fair v. good. I think the team who hits the game-winning grand slam should win. Our job is not so black and white. We need to make judgements all the time on the intent of the rule. If you are going to call this out and continue the game, you better be repared to NOT give any discretion on the neighborhood play at second.
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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 09:01pm
DG DG is offline
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I have never seen a game continued because a missed base ruling was upheld in a situation like this. I expect that I would hang around to "see" R3 tag home and then I am gone. If the visiting coach wants to chase me down to appeal, the ensuing argument will be extensive and last long enough for the defense to leave the field and then an appeal on an inning ending play is no longer possible. The ball must be live, and the defense on the field.
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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 09:14pm
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Two thoughts for the price of one:

"Runner from 3rd base is running home, jumping up and down. As he reaches the plate, he jumps into the waiting arms of his fellow players. One guy finally drops him. You guessed it, the runer never touched the plate. He was dropped " a few inches" from the plate. He MAY have touched it, but there are so many players there, who knows? Well, the rest of the players circle the bases and by the time the batter gets to the plate, there are lots of people on the field."

Well...did he miss the plate or didn't he? You say that he may have touched it, but you didn't see it. Do you call a runner out because the fielder may have touched him or do you need to see it?

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On rewarding the better play, that is what rookies and lazy veterans do. Joe West gave us a couple of examples of calling it correctly, even though the expected call was otherwise. You don't serve the game by ignoring obvious infractions.

Now, how may I have handled it? When the crowd started to gather or when he was mobbed, I announce, "Guys, I need to see him touch." That gets their attention and lets the opposition know that I'm watching. It controls the game and doesn't provide an advantage to either side. That is fair and good.



[Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Dec 24th, 2005 at 09:30 PM]
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Old Sat Dec 24, 2005, 01:51pm
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[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

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Now, how may I have handled it? When the crowd started to gather or when he was mobbed, I announce, "Guys, I need to see him touch." That gets their attention and let's the opposition know that I'm watching. It controls the game and doesn't provide an advantage to either side. That is fair and good.

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I believe WWTB gave a fine example on how to handle this situation, one that should appeal to "seemingly lax" crowd and to the "obnoxiously officious" lads.

Wow, I agreed with WWTB, it truly is a Christmas miracle. Merry Christmas, WWTB, and to all of you.


Doug


*Edit by Carbide Keyman to correct horrendous spelling*
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