The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 12:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wa.
Posts: 198
Score the run

Sit.
R3, R2, 2 outs.
Ground ball to F5, R3 and R2 are going on contact.
F5 gloves the ball, runs at and tags the hung out R2 for the 3RD out.
R3 touches HP prior to the "tag" of R2.

BR is 1/2 way to 1B "when the tag of R2 is made", BR kicks the dirt and heads towards his 3B dugout to fetch his glove and hat.

F5 seeing BR stop, now throws to F3.
F3 steps on 1B and appeals; "the BR did not advance and touch 1B".
The advantageous 4th out is: "recognized by the umpires, as the 3RD out, on the BR, before he reached 1B, wipe off the run.
__________________
SLAS
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 02:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 928
Can't appeal abandonment.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 06:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Can't appeal abandonment.
BR cannot abandon his responsibility to run to 1st base. Abandonment is only for runners that are on base already.

The BR has been appealed, this is the 4th out - no run scores.
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 07:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900
Abandonment is only for runners that are on base already.
I don't think so. What about the batter heading for the dugout after a dropped 3rd strike?

It's still the advantageous 4th out. No run scores.

Last edited by dash_riprock; Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 07:10am.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 08:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
I don't think so. What about the batter heading for the dugout after a dropped 3rd strike?
The rule specifically says something like, "A runner is out when .... after reaching first, he abandons his attempt to reach the next base"

Somebody (J/R?) calls the BR leaving the baseline "desertion."
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 08:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Old Dominion
Posts: 82
Yep, that's J/R applying the term "desertion" for the B/R.
__________________
"...a humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." - Ps li

"The prompt and correct judgements of the honorable umpire elicited applause from the members of both clubs, and their thanks are tendered to him for the gentlemanly manner in which he acquitted himself of that onerous duty." - Niagara Indexensis, May 20th 1872
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 08:36am
Stop staring at me swan.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,974
The runner hasn't safely touched 1B before the 3rd out...no run. I don't understand the advantageous 4th out appeal here...that wouldn't be right would it?
__________________
It's like Deja Vu all over again
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 11:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08
The runner hasn't safely touched 1B before the 3rd out...no run. I don't understand the advantageous 4th out appeal here...that wouldn't be right would it?
R2 was tagged for the 3rd out. BR never touched 1st so the defense has the right to appeal the BR. This appeal creates a 4th out which negates the run. The 4th out is rarely seen because most teams don't even realize that it exists and many amateur umpires don't realize it either! Anytime a BR gives up on a 3rd out not made by him is subject to appeal
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 11:33am
Stop staring at me swan.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,974
great situation to bring up on here.
__________________
It's like Deja Vu all over again
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 12:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 476
This might be a stupid question but what if BR keeps running and touches first base (either not realizing the third out has been made or whatever) after the tag on R2? Is the run still nullified because the touch was after the third out?
__________________
Throwing people out of a game is like riding a bike- once you get the hang of it, it can be a lot of fun.- Ron Luciano
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 12:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattmets
This might be a stupid question but what if BR keeps running and touches first base (either not realizing the third out has been made or whatever) after the tag on R2? Is the run still nullified because the touch was after the third out?
No. Score the run. The advantageous 4th out is no longer possible.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 12:57pm
Stop staring at me swan.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,974
well, you wouldn't have anything to appeal for the advantageous 4th out appeal. If BR reaches 1B, then, IMO you have a time play. Did the tag take place after R3 touched HP? If yes, count the run. If not, no run.

I still don't know if this sitch (OP) qualifies as an advantageous 4th out appeal. Since the 3rd out already happened, BR doesn't have an obligation to touch 1st does he?
__________________
It's like Deja Vu all over again
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 03:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
No. Score the run. The advantageous 4th out is no longer possible.
I agree. Now take this: BR rounds first, but misses it -- then the third out is made by tagging BR as he slides into second. Can BR still correct his error?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 04:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
I agree. Now take this: BR rounds first, but misses it -- then the third out is made by tagging BR as he slides into second. Can BR still correct his error?
Wow, Bob. This one gets heavy.

Can a retired runner correct a baserunning error? Well, he can be appealed, and he's still on the field so it would seem unfair to not let him do so.

But can you have an advantaqeous 4th out when the 3rd out was made by the same player? Would the batter be 0 for 2? (just kidding)

I would let him correct the error. And I stand ready to be corrected.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 31, 2008, 07:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
Wow, Bob. This one gets heavy.

Can a retired runner correct a baserunning error? Well, he can be appealed, and he's still on the field so it would seem unfair to not let him do so.

But can you have an advantaqeous 4th out when the 3rd out was made by the same player? Would the batter be 0 for 2? (just kidding)

I would let him correct the error. And I stand ready to be corrected.
I don't think that it would be possible for the runner to correct this mistake. Once he rounded first, we (as umpires) assume that he touched the bag until appealed. At this point, the BR has completed his responsibility to touch 1st.

In the OP the BR never bothered to complete his responsibility although he could have tried to do so before entering the dugout. You're right..... it's getting deep!
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How would you score it? WinterWillie Softball 10 Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:28pm
Score the run? NSump Baseball 6 Sat Dec 24, 2005 01:51pm
O/T Score ljudge Football 6 Thu Nov 03, 2005 09:50am
How do you score this? BigUmpJohn Softball 4 Sun Jun 15, 2003 03:44pm
Does the run score? 18597 Softball 4 Sat Sep 07, 2002 09:03am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:18am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1