Batter throwing bat

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

But what do I know.........

Tim.

Here's what I know: If the rules cover the action, I enforce it. If the rules do not, I don't.

I follow the rules under which the game is played and I don't invent rules and I don't transfer rules from one code to another.

To my knowledge the original post was in reference to a game played under OBR, not FED. I asked if there was a league rule covering the action and did not get a reply. Thus, my posts have addressed OBR, under which there is no penalty for the action you described.

[canadaump6]

While OBR (the ruleset I use) doesn't specifically cover throwing the bat, I feel responsible for keeping players safe and that includes dealing with players who cannot play the game safely. Does nobody believe that enforcement of safety comes into play under rule 9.01a?

I have had so many games over the past couple years where a player will throw the bat, I tell the player and/or coach that he cannot throw it, and next at bat the player throws it again. It is very frustrating and really makes me wonder whether I am an umpire or a babysitter. It's one of the reasons I don't do much kiddieball anymore. Maybe I am just too picky.

First, I did not quote you and was not posting to you, but if you work like Canadaump6 let me ask this: Do you see no difference between a player throwing a helmet purposefully and an incidentally thrown bat?

Do you not see a difference between the two? One is unsportsmanlike, while the other is just plain dangerous.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

It's one of the reasons I don't do much kiddieball anymore. Maybe I am just too picky.

The game itself is dangerous. The specific issue (accidental bat throwing) is a league issue. If they don't think it warrants a league rule, then you shouldn't try to invent one during the game.

If you feel strongly about it, then propose a rules change to them.

[rookieblue]

If you feel strongly about it, then propose a rules change to them.

Quite so. That failing, limit your officiating

[CenTexBlue]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

While OBR (the ruleset I use) doesn't specifically cover throwing the bat, I feel responsible for keeping players safe and that includes dealing with players who cannot play the game safely. Does nobody believe that enforcement of safety comes into play under rule 9.01a?

If there is nothing in the OBR about a player throwing the bat and 9.01a does not cover it, then how about 9.01c.

(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.

If it comes down to saftey and there is nothing specifically about it, then this should cover it.

[RPatrino]

I get really nervous when it is recommended to use 9.01c. It is a very slippery slope you tread on when you trot that one out, IMHO.

As far as Canada's philosophy of "I feel responsible for keeping players safe", how many HBP's do you allow before you eject a pitcher?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

...how many HBP's do you allow before you eject a pitcher?

In most adult leagues I've worked, 3 in a game or 2 in the same inning gets the pitcher an early hook.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by CenTexBlue

If there is nothing in the OBR about a player throwing the bat and 9.01a does not cover it, then how about 9.01c.

No, no, a thousand times no. 9.01c is not a license for you to make up rules.

The purpose of 9.01c is to allow the umpire to make a ruling in order to permit the game to move along when it gets stuck. Pitch in flight hits a bird. What's your call? Ball? Strike? No pitch? Do runners get to advance? That's the spot for 9.01c.

Just because the rules are silent on a matter does not mean that there's an omission calling for you to apply 9.01c.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

No, no, a thousand times no. 9.01c is not a license for you to make up rules.

The purpose of 9.01c is to allow the umpire to make a ruling in order to permit the game to move along when it gets stuck. Pitch in flight hits a bird. What's your call? Ball? Strike? No pitch? Do runners get to advance? That's the spot for 9.01c.

Just because the rules are silent on a matter does not mean that there's an omission calling for you to apply 9.01c.

There's a line somewhere, it's just a matter of where you draw it.
#22 swings hard, makes contact releases bat late, bat hits F2 in elbow. F2 has to leave game with possible broken bone.
Next time 22 is up similar scenario but this time bat hits you in the neck.
Defensive coach tells you he does not have a third catcher.
Your neck is already hurting and now you're risking being behind a novice catcher the rest of the day
Are you giving 22 a third at bat

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by CO ump

There's a line somewhere, it's just a matter of where you draw it.
#22 swings hard, makes contact releases bat late, bat hits F2 in elbow. F2 has to leave game with possible broken bone.
Next time 22 is up similar scenario but this time bat hits you in the neck.
Defensive coach tells you he does not have a third catcher.
Your neck is already hurting and now you're risking being behind a novice catcher the rest of the day
Are you giving 22 a third at bat

Or better yet, 22 throws the bat and cripples the catcher at his first at bat, and at his second at bat, throws his bat which bounces off the back-up catcher, killing him instantly, and hits the pitcher causing a compound fracture of his left elbow, splintering and putting out his right eye.

That ought to get you a couple of "votes."

[jdmara]

I hate to throw myself in the fire but I view a batter that consistently throws his bat as an unsportsmanlike act if the bat ends up near a defender (or myself). Just my two cents. I have not had a problem with it recently as I nip it immediately with a conference with the coach. "Coach, your last batter threw his bat backwards in the vicinity of the plate. It could have easily injured the catcher or myself. We need to get that taken care of immediately. Thank you for talking with him about it."

-Josh

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Or better yet, 22 throws the bat and cripples the catcher at his first at bat, and at his second at bat, throws his bat which bounces off the back-up catcher, killing him instantly, and hits the pitcher causing a compound fracture of his left elbow, splintering and putting out his right eye.

That ought to get you a couple of "votes."

It's apparent that you again have misunderstood my point and I apologize for not communicating very well.
I'll rephrase it so that you may better understand the point, apparently unsuccessfully, I was trying to make.

1. I wasn't looking for votes.

Mbyron(whom I quoted on the post you are referring) was emphatic about NOT using 9.01c in a bat throwing sitch during an OBR game.

I don't necessarily agree that it is so black and white and feel that most umps will at some point draw a line on this issue.
(Draw a line means that at some point we will all put a stop to the bat throwing, however some will tolerate more than others. Where you draw the line is up to you)
Perhaps it would have to be as drastic as your above sitch for you to draw the line I don't know.
So yes, my sitch was third world but would probably not be tolerated by many umps, which helps make my point.

The intent of using this form of argument is to switch the debate from 'Do you stop this type of behavior' to 'When do you stop this type of behavior'?
I'm hoping that is not to subtle for you.
And if the question is When do you stop it, the next question has to be How do you stop it? Using 9.01c is obviously one way.

PS
Are you by chance from Rio Linda?