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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 04:52pm
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Batter throwing bat

How do you guys deal with a batter who tosses his bat after making contact with the ball? Do you eject the unsafe player immediately, or give him a warning? My procedure has been to wait till the inning is over, then write the offending player's number on my lineup card, and tell the coach "player number xx is getting his warning for throwing the bat". If he does it again, player is ejected.

I had a coach challenge my way of handling this situation, who stated that there was no rule about not throwing the bat. I feel rule 9.01a is sufficient to cover the handling of an unsafe player- part of the umpire's job is to maintain order and discipline on the field.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 05:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
How do you guys deal with a batter who tosses his bat after making contact with the ball? Do you eject the unsafe player immediately, or give him a warning? My procedure has been to wait till the inning is over, then write the offending player's number on my lineup card, and tell the coach "player number xx is getting his warning for throwing the bat". If he does it again, player is ejected.

I had a coach challenge my way of handling this situation, who stated that there was no rule about not throwing the bat. I feel rule 9.01a is sufficient to cover the handling of an unsafe player- part of the umpire's job is to maintain order and discipline on the field.
I take it that you are talking about a "carelessly" thrown bat. Tossing the bat after hitting the ball is never against the rules in OBR, which is the rule set under which you work, I believe. (unless you have a local or league rule prohibiting a "carelessly" thrown bat). Only under FED rules is there a proscribed penalty for a bat throwing infraction.

Since OBR makes no provision for throwing a bat, carelessly or otherwise, my question to you is why you are trying to enforce a non-existent rule? The coach who challenged you was correct to do so. If he said that there is no rule against tossing the bat away after hitting the ball, then he is right.

By the way, citing any 9.01 rule as justification of an on-field ruling is extremely weak, and shows a lack of understanding of the playing rules.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 05:28pm
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The only time this is an issue is when I'm working kids under age 10 or so. A lot of them either a) don't realize they're throwing the bat or b) are so excited that they just chuck the thing. If I notice it's a problem, I'll just ask the coach to remind his guys not to throw the bat, because I have been hit many times and I've seen catchers get nailed in the legs and arms. Unless it's a safety issue I don't make a big deal out of it, which is why I've never said it to anyone older than maybe 14. Coaches understand the safety issue, so I've never had to talk to a coach more than once in a game.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 06:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Since OBR makes no provision for throwing a bat, carelessly or otherwise, my question to you is why you are trying to enforce a non-existent rule? The coach who challenged you was correct to do so. If he said that there is no rule against tossing the bat away after hitting the ball, then he is right.

By the way, citing any 9.01 rule as justification of an on-field ruling is extremely weak, and shows a lack of understanding of the playing rules.

In his defense, Steve, OBR is written for professional leagues where this almost never happens. In youth leagues that use modified OBR that don't address a carelessly discarded bat, in my opinion, it should be addressed by us. If I or the catcher gets hit by a thrown bat the offender receives a warning, and only one warning. Next time I see it, he's gone.


Tim.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 07:38pm
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I was under the possibly incorrect idea that he was working big boy ball, and not kiddie ball. I usually just tell the kid and the coach to stop throwing the bat. It sometimes takes more than one warning to get the kid to break the habit of slinging the bat backwards. I really hate ejecting little kids for this.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 07:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
I was under the possibly incorrect idea that he was working big boy ball, and not kiddie ball. I usually just tell the kid and the coach to stop throwing the bat. It sometimes takes more than one warning to get the kid to break the habit of slinging the bat backwards. I really hate ejecting little kids for this.

An option I used to use in LL small diamond games it to give the manager the option of sitting the player himself as opposed to me issuing an ejection where the player has to sit a one game suspension.


Tim.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 08:54pm
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You would be amazed how old kids can be when they're still throwing the bat. I have had kids as old as 14 not knowing how to simply drop it. I don't want anybody getting hurt, myself included. A player who cannot play safely should not be in the game IMO. I haven't had to eject for it yet, but if I did it would be a "okay coach, your player can stay on the bench for the rest of the game but he cannot play".
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 10:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
You would be amazed how old kids can be when they're still throwing the bat. I have had kids as old as 14 not knowing how to simply drop it. I don't want anybody getting hurt, myself included. A player who cannot play safely should not be in the game IMO. I haven't had to eject for it yet, but if I did it would be a "okay coach, your player can stay on the bench for the rest of the game but he cannot play".
Is there a rule prohibiting this in the code under which you're working, or are you making one up?
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 10:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire
Is there a rule prohibiting this in the code under which you're working, or are you making one up?
I guess I'm making one up. I can live with it...................


There's no specific rule in OBR that prohibits a player from hurling his helmet into the dugout or slamming it on the plate after a call they don't like. But, they're going to get dumped in a game I'm working, made up rule or no.


Tim.

Last edited by BigUmp56; Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:11pm.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 11:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56
I guess I'm making one up. I can live with it...................


There's no specific rule in OBR that prohibits a player from hurling his helmet into the dugout or slamming it on the plate after a call they don't like. But, they're going to get dumped in a game I'm working, made up rule or no.


Tim.
First, I did not quote you and was not posting to you, but if you work like Canadaump6 let me ask this: Do you see no difference between a player throwing a helmet purposefully and an incidentally thrown bat?

Last edited by MrUmpire; Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:13pm.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 11:06pm
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But Tim, the problem I had was with the heavy-handed way Canadaump was warning people, in true Gestapo fashion. It seemed quite OOO to me. He never said that it was a "carelessly" thrown bat, just a "thrown bat." It seemed like he was saying that the batter must lay his bat gently on the ground, or else face the wrath of CU6.

If he had made clear what kind of thrown bat he was talking about, and what age group he was talking about, then I may have understood a bit more. But what he said was, "How do you guys deal with a batter who tosses his bat after making contact with the ball?" The correct answer to this question (remember, he wants to err on the side of picky) is "nothing, it's not illegal to toss a bat."
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 11:11pm
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Yes. As Mr. Umpire says, there is a big difference from angrily throwing equipment, for which if it is outside the dugout, I will eject immediately. If inside the dugout, I tell the coach to handle it. But someone accidently throws the bat without malice, I'm not going to run the kid. He will eventually learn not to throw the bat, but there is no rule that says he can't, and I don't go around making up rules.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 11:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire
First, I did not quote you and was not posting to you, but if you work like Canadaump6 let me ask this: Do you see no difference between a player throwing a helmet purposefully and an incidentally thrown bat?
Sure I see the difference. The difference to me is that with the equipment thrown in disgust I'm going to immediately run the player whereas with the thrown bat I'll give him a warning first. Maybe I need to make clear that I'm not talking about a bat that's been tossed a decent distance away from the plate area. I'm talking about a bat that's wantonly discarded that hits myself or the catcher in close proximity to the plate. It happens very rarely on the big diamond, but it does happen, and if it happens twice in a game the player is done for the day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Yes. As Mr. Umpire says, there is a big difference from angrily throwing equipment, for which if it is outside the dugout, I will eject immediately. If inside the dugout, I tell the coach to handle it. But someone accidently throws the bat without malice, I'm not going to run the kid. He will eventually learn not to throw the bat, but there is no rule that says he can't, and I don't go around making up rules.

Steve,


Are you really going to allow a player to hit you, even accidentally, twice in one game with a thrown bat and not run him?



Tim.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 11:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Steve,


Are you really going to allow a player to hit you, even accidentally, twice in one game with a thrown bat and not run him?



Tim.
If it ever happens and I'm working big boy ball under OBR, yep. I don't use small boy rules in big boy games.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2008, 11:57pm
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I guess that with the exception of HS and 16-18 year old games I don't work enough "big boy" ball. Of course FED does cover it, but for the life of me I can't figure out why they'd want to input "small boy" rules into their "big boy" games. Unless like LL does for all levels, including 16-18, they felt that it was necessary to address for the safety of the games participants. But what do I know.........

Tim.
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