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Old Tue Jan 22, 2008, 02:21pm
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Batter out for throwing bat

In our local NFHS clinic, our clinician was discussing a "war story" about calling a batter out for throwing her bat. After a little questioning, it appears she had warned the batter earlier in the game about tossing her bat after a base hit. Apparently, this player did not approve of the umpire's warning. After her next base hit, she tossed the bat in the direction of the umpire's head. When the play was over, the umpire called the batter-runner out and restricted her to the bench. In this situation, the thrown bat did not interfere with the defensive team. Where in the rule book does it declare a batter out for tossing the bat?
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Old Tue Jan 22, 2008, 03:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodibuck
In this situation, the thrown bat did not interfere with the defensive team. Where in the rule book does it declare a batter out for tossing the bat?
It doesn't. However, if the umpire felt the batter intentionally tossed the bat at her head; an ejection for UC could be warranted. The batter would not be called out though. The coach could enter an eligible sub to run the bases for the ejected player.
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Old Tue Jan 22, 2008, 03:38pm
SRW SRW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodibuck
...Apparently, this player did not approve of the umpire's warning.
Do they ever?

This is pretty open-ended... how did this player "not approve" of it? Vocally? If looks could kill?
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Old Tue Jan 22, 2008, 03:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
Do they ever?

This is pretty open-ended... how did this player "not approve" of it? Vocally? If looks could kill?
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Old Tue Jan 22, 2008, 09:00pm
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Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 06:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodibuck
.... she tossed the bat in the direction of the umpire's head.
This constitutes an arrest warrant for assult. However, not an out.
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Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 10:25am
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As has already been stated...there is no rule basis for calling a batter out for throwing the bat.

I also covered this issue in the NFHS class I facilitated earlier this week. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen umpires (mostly rec-level with little or no training) call a batter out for throwing a bat. They seem to think they need to "punish" the batter somehow....
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Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 01:52pm
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NCAA took care of this problem this year didn't they? Hopefully it will "trickle down".
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Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 02:32pm
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Originally Posted by bkbjones
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Old Wed Jan 23, 2008, 04:01pm
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Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 04:05pm
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
As has already been stated...there is no rule basis for calling a batter out for throwing the bat.... I have seen umpires (mostly rec-level with little or no training) call a batter out for throwing a bat. They seem to think they need to "punish" the batter somehow....
ASA yes, no rule. But... NFHS does have a No Throw rule:

I start w/the premise that I would USUALLY not call it in NFHS. But I do enforce 3-6-16 (p. 40 2008 NFHS Softball Rules Book), when, in my judgement (or upon complaint from catcher or coach) the bat hits or almost hits the catcher. I give a warning to the player and notify the coach. If that player does it again, I will restrict the player to the bench (or eject pursuant to the penalty if I judge it to be egregious). It is a safety issue for the catcher. In those circumstances (a repeat) I judge it to be deliberate because it was done after the initial warning.

Of course, if the catcher was making a play, I might enforce 8-1-14 (p. 60 2008 Rules) - batter is out & runners return to previous base.
[edited to add penalty]
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Last edited by MA Softball Ump; Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:16pm.
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Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 04:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MA Softball Ump
ASA yes, no rule. But... NFHS does have a No Throw rule:

I start w/the premise that I would USUALLY not call it in NFHS. But I do enforce 3-6-16 (p. 40 2008 NFHS Softball Rules Book), when, in my judgement (or upon complaint from catcher or coach) the bat hits or almost hits the catcher. I give a warning to the player and notify the coach. If that player does it again, I will restrict the player to the bench (or eject pursuant to the penalty if I judge it to be egregious). It is a safety issue for the catcher. In those circumstances (a repeat) I judge it to be deliberate because it was done after the initial warning.

Of course, if the catcher was making a play, I might enforce 8-1-14 (p. 60 2008 Rules) - batter is out & runners return to previous base.
[edited to add penalty]
Even if either rule 3-6-16 or 8-1-14 is enforced, there is still no out on the play as described in the OP.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 08:37am
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MA,

Not only does NFHS have a "no throw rule", it has two of them! It sounds like you are not enforcing the NFHS thrown bat rules as written.

Rule 3-6-3 covers a carelessly thrown bat. Rule 3-6-16 covers deliberately thrown bats.

Two different rules with two different penalties, warnings, consequences and levels of judgment.

Also, I would not enforce either of these rules based on "a complaint from a catcher or coach". You either saw it or you didn't. When you see it, you either judge it to be careless or deliberate. Then you apply whichever rule is appropriate.

If the bat is thrown "carelessly" (one that accidentally slips from the batter's hands, is discarded in a normal manner but with extra force or distance, or just happens to almost hit the catcher), you issue a team warning. The next offender on that team that you judge to "carelessly" throw the bat is restricted to the dugout (not ejected).

If the bat is "deliberately" thrown (not an accident, but purposely tossed with intent, as in anger or frustration and not in a manner associated with normal game play) you may eject the player on the spot. If the infraction is judged to be minor, you have the option of warning the player (not the entire team) and ejecting (not restricting to the bench) if that same player deliberately repeats the same offense.

Reading your post, it really sounds like you are mixing the two rules together- warning the player when the act was not intentional and restricting a player to the bench when you've judged the act to be deliberate.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 03:27pm
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Talking Point Taken

My inartful writing. I agree w/99% (iow: that is mostly what I meant to say or impart).
However, on the careless discard, I usually will not call that unless there is a complaint OR I judged it to have come so close to the catcher that I deemed it dangerous.
But then again, maybe I should call the careless disgard anytime it comes w/in a foot of the catcher?
Hmmmm.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 03:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MA Softball Ump
But then again, maybe I should call the careless disgard anytime it comes w/in a foot of the catcher?
Hmmmm.
It's all about judgment.
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