One of those days.....

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

4. I would be interested to hear how you would handle it if the other manager said, 'let me pick a sub from your bench." If I was there, the answer is NO. Period. End of conversation. How do you handle the ensuing argument? If they refuse to hear no, do you eject people until you get your way, forfeit the game, or walk off the field?

Coach, you can continue with eight. Let's play ball now. If the coach refuses to take the field, forfeit the game. If the game is forfeited, you and your partner leave the field together.

[jkumpire]

Michael,

I would be very interested to find out what your or my HS state association would say in response to your report to them about this forfeit...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Michael,

I would be very interested to find out what your or my HS state association would say in response to your report to them about this forfeit...

I'd guess it would go something like this: "The coach refused to take the field? Good forfeit. Oh, here's a fine for the coach and a few days off to think about his actions."

[charliej47]

I once had to forfeit a H.S. game because the coach refused to comply with an order I gave him and Ohio and his school backed me of the forfeit. The coach was not asked back the next year.

Hmmmmmmmm....

Why did you call a balk on the pick off attempt at 1st base? Did the pitcher not step directly to the bag?

Why did you leave the field to get a rule book. I have NEVER done this, nor EVER seen that done in a high school game. Yes, the NCAA allows this, but it is only for the official to look something up in the book.

To not confer with your partner about a misapplied rule, is, well, bad! Ok, he was the UIC, and ultimately, it is his call, but I would have been having a seriously pointed discussion during and after the game about this.

[jkumpire]

rei,

FED Case Book 6.2.4J and comment A, p. 53.

As to the book, it was a mistake-- but the FED umpire's manual does recommend that the umpires have access to a rule book for situations like this. We did have a disucssion after the game.

[jkumpire]

Yes Bob, you and Michael are probably right. But I would not be happy about ending a game like this, would you?

Originally Posted by jkumpire

rei,

FED Case Book 6.2.4J and comment A, p. 53.

As to the book, it was a mistake-- but the FED umpire's manual does recommend that the umpires have access to a rule book for situations like this. We did have a disucssion after the game.

I knew that was going to be what you would site for justification to call a balk.

So, with that in mind, that F3 is "20' off the bag". Do you think he could make a play on the runner from that far away if the runner slipped and fell? He most certainly could! Are you a fortune teller and can tell when and if the runner might slip and fall returning to the bag? Heck, I call out a runner about every 3rd game because they slip and fall on their way back to 1st! IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!

I would not be so quick to assume that a play cannot be made. The pitcher made a legal pick off attempt. For me, F3 is going to need to be pretty close to F9 before I am willing to say he is not close enough to make a play. You get what I am saying? New guys that I mentor bring this up every year because it seems to happen every year. It almost always turns into something nasty for them when they balk it. Then I tell them to quit balking that "stretch" of a balk, and when they do, they quit getting nasty arguments about it. Maybe the offensive coach says "Hey, F3 is off the bag". Simply they reply "Coach, he is in proximity". That has ALWAYS ended the discussion with no further complaint.

Keep the rule book in the car. After 22 years of doing this, I can tell you that it will lead to nothing but trouble to go digging around in a rule book during the game. The only time I would consider this is if I was unsure, and the ruling would have an outcome in the game. I will never let a coaches request lead me to looking it up during the game. You were sure you had it right, and delayed the game to humor the coach who doesn't know jack, then you got your partner making deals without you there. NOW do you see why I say "Keep the rule book in the car" and don't go get it during a game?

[mikebran]

We have a WINNER! Yeee yikes!

The Mother of Mistakes. (as said by the poster).

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Okay, here is my mistake-- I said; "Okay I have a rule book in my car." So out I go,

[fitump56]

Mess? Yep, Partner, Dump him.

Looks like to me you were trying to do the right thing then did the wrong things.