... and I criticize LL umps!

[aceholleran]

Friday night, Phils @ Cubs. I saw only the highlights on ESPN.

Carloz Ruiz, at head end of potential 6-4-3 DP, goes barrel-a$$ing into 2B, taking out Marcus Giles. It was almost a football rolling block. B-R safe at first, even though Giles did get a throw off. No call at second other than Ruiz out.

Of course, ESPN focused on the brouhaha that ensued, with a little contremps between Giles and Ruiz. THEN, ESPN tells us that umps have finally called out B-R for Ruiz's INT. No call when it happened though.

Bill Welke at 2B, BTW.

I have to admit, if I saw this in W-port, and the right call wasn't made until well after the play phase was over, I would have been screaming blue murder.

Ace

[PeteBooth]

This is PRO ball we are talking about. That rule about having to at least reach the base with your hand is virtually not called in a PRO game. We have seen many examples over the years. Albert Belle comes to mind etc.

That's one of the main reasons for having the FPSR. If memory serves F4 was removed because of an injury. The player went "right at" the fielder" not the base.

If that doesn't meet the criteria "willfully and deliberately with obvious intent" I do not know what does.

In PRO ball for the most part runners have "carte blanche"

Since you are speaking of LL it is amazing that LL does not have any sliding restrictions. They have a joke of a safety rule called 7.08(a)3 however, in order for that to be in effect the fielder MUST have the ball AND be waiting to make a tag which is hardly ever the case.

In the LLWS/Regions we already saw a pop-up slide that effected the play but because LL has no sliding restrictions this is legal.

In a nutshell, I doubt even in the LLWS that the umpire would ring up 2 outs on the play you are talking about in the Phils @ Cubs game.

In HS and NCAA we have 2 outs on this play. In LL it would be questionable. That's why IMO< amateur leagues especailly youth leagues should have a FPSR.

Pete Booth

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

This is PRO ball we are talking about. That rule about having to at least reach the base with your hand is virtually not called in a PRO game. We have seen many examples over the years. Albert Belle comes to mind etc.

That's one of the main reasons for having the FPSR. If memory serves F4 was removed because of an injury. The player went "right at" the fielder" not the base.

If that doesn't meet the criteria "willfully and deliberately with obvious intent" I do not know what does.

In PRO ball for the most part runners have "carte blanche"

Since you are speaking of LL it is amazing that LL does not have any sliding restrictions. They have a joke of a safety rule called 7.08(a)3 however, in order for that to be in effect the fielder MUST have the ball AND be waiting to make a tag which is hardly ever the case.

In the LLWS/Regions we already saw a pop-up slide that effected the play but because LL has no sliding restrictions this is legal.

In a nutshell, I doubt even in the LLWS that the umpire would ring up 2 outs on the play you are talking about in the Phils @ Cubs game.

In HS and NCAA we have 2 outs on this play. In LL it would be questionable. That's why IMO< amateur leagues especailly youth leagues should have a FPSR.

Pete Booth

In 2007, pop-up slides were made legal in NCAA baseball, even if they resulted in contact. What is the fielder doing so close to the base? The fielder shouldn't have carte blanche to make a play. By the end of the season, most DPs had R1 popping up at second. Turned properly, R1 had no effect on the pivot.

The play in LL was LEGAL. Again, why should the fielder have a free pass to make the play right at the base without turning a proper pivot?

[kylejt]

First, it was the Phils vs. Padres.

The block was pretty obvious, by everyone except U2. I looked like a pulling guard taking out a linebacker. R1 was called out, and when the umpires got together they called INT, thus calling the BR out AND returning R3 back to third. Warning were issued to both benches before the next pitch. This being the first game of a three game set, nothing should take place until later in Sunday's game anyway.

Giles came out of the game in the later innings. (fine, because he's not hitting his weight). The bench clearing brew ha ha that ensued was pretty comical only be cause a late attendee needed to zip up before entering the scrum.

[greymule]

MLB films from decades ago show clearly that runners were expected to try to break up double plays however they could, short of reaching up and catching the throw. Even obvious deviation from the baseline, ten feet from being able to reach the bag with hand or foot, was simply accepted. Rolling blocks were common and utterly ignored by the umpires. The rule book said one thing; the ballpark said another.

The play in the recent Phils' game shows that the standard is slightly stricter now, even though the umpires had to huddle to decide it was INT.

brew ha ha

I like that one. Beer that makes you laugh. Not as good as a recent "pass mustard" post, though.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by greymule

MLB films from decades ago show clearly that runners were expected to try to break up double plays however they could, short of reaching up and catching the throw. Even obvious deviation from the baseline, ten feet from being able to reach the bag with hand or foot, was simply accepted. Rolling blocks were common and utterly ignored by the umpires. The rule book said one thing; the ballpark said another.

Fs were allowed "in the vicinity" FO calls to combat this ridiculous "football is baseball" mentality. The whole sitch was st00pid.