JV Umps get their due !!!!

nickrego · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 04, 2006, 05:18am

Starting next year, our association will pay umpires more money to do Single Man JV games than 2 Man Varsity games !

Currently, we get $55 for Single Man JV, or 2 Man Varsity, and $73 for Single Man Varsity.

Next year, it will be $58 for 2 Man Varsity, $78 for Single Man Varsity, and $73 for Single Man JV.

This is long over due in our industry. Our association, and schools, are hoping this will alleviate the problem we have getting officials to work alone, at the lower level.

In any case, I think they deserve it.

Northern California Officials Association

Rich · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 04, 2006, 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by nickrego
Starting next year, our association will pay umpires more money to do Single Man JV games than 2 Man Varsity games !

Currently, we get $55 for Single Man JV, or 2 Man Varsity, and $73 for Single Man Varsity.

Next year, it will be $58 for 2 Man Varsity, $78 for Single Man Varsity, and $73 for Single Man JV.

This is long over due in our industry. Our association, and schools, are hoping this will alleviate the problem we have getting officials to work alone, at the lower level.

In any case, I think they deserve it.

Northern California Officials Association

I think you're wrong. I think JV officials should be paid in such a manner that encourages them to become good enough to work varsity games. In other words, if you're getting $58 for varsity, I'd pay about $35 for JV, both single and 2-man. I'd charge the schools more as an association, but that money wouldn't go to the umpire -- it would go into the association.

The goal should be to get schools to hire 2 officials, not make it attractive for the officials to go out and work 1-man.

FVB9 · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 04, 2006, 07:27pm

Rich is absolutely right about this one. Incenting umpires to work "down" for more money is rewarding the wrong behavior.

Also...I realize that a single umpire working a lower level game is exuding more energy (maybe) than two umpires working a Varsity contest. HOWEVER...the intensity of a Varsity contest (and the expectations bestowed upon Varsity umpires) requires a much stronger effort from us. I'm not saying Varsity umpires should be paid significantly more, but the thought of a first year rookie getting paid more on the Freshman-B field than the two State Playoff umpires on the Varsity field is mind boggling to me.

If you're having a hard time getting umpires to work lower levels, then how about a recruiting program? Run some ads, put up a quality website, promote your Association, and there will be plenty of newbies to work the lower level games.

My two thoughts anyways.

Carbide Keyman · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 04, 2006, 08:35pm

I agree with Rich, to a degree.

My area (Central Massachusetts) pay Varsity umpires $68 per man for two umpires, a fee and one-half if done as a single. JV gets paid $46 per for a two-man crew and a fee and one-half for a single.

In this area, where varsity games are awarded almost strictly on a seniority basis (this season varsity games will be done by an 83 yr.old, an 81 yr.old, and a couple of 78 yr.olds) and almost all JV, freshman, and middle school games are done solo, why shouldn't a good umpire who has little chance of getting quality games, and the games he does gets he has to bust his hump solo, get some extra pay for the aggravation ?

The schools are not going to budget any more for the sub-varsity games, this comes from the athletic directors.

In the perfect world, Rich is spot-on. Unfortunately, nothing is perfect (especially when it comes to paying and scheduling of umpires).

Doug

Peruvian · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 04, 2006, 08:50pm

Are you being assigned one-man games, or is this a fee when a partner can't be found? We're never assigned to work alone. If we don't have the officials, we don't solicit so many contracts.

Just curious.

irefky · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 04, 2006, 10:00pm

Working 1 man is terrible, what do you learn about mechanics if you are a new guy? Here, in KY, our officials are at a shortage, we work new guys in on varsity games with older guys. Of course, the so called big game, has its better crew. I think in our position, this has worked well. Paying someone at a higher rate than varsity just to work games alone, bad. I understand they may get more if their partner does not show up. Why one earth would he want to strive to get varsity at a lower pay? Goals, goals, we must set goals.

SAump · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 04, 2006, 11:10pm

Did I get this right? Your asking a man to work a game by himself for absolutely the same amount of money he would make as part of a 2-man crew. What about giving up the money to a worthier cause {alala the association}? I HOPE I just misread your intentions, otherwise I wholeheartedly disagree with those opinions.

SanDiegoSteve · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 05, 2006, 02:31am

You guys who have never worked one-man games are sure a spoiled bunch. You just don't know how good you've had it!

In the largest cities around the country, one-man games are very common at the sub-varsity level. In most cases, there is simply too much baseball compared to the number of available umpires. Also, many leagues, including high schools (at least here) request only one umpire do to financial reasons.

My first year, 1986, I worked over 230 games, and probably 175 of them were one-man jobs. It is absoulutely the best on-the-job training there is! There are always opportunities to work two-man games, or learn the two-man system through clinics, but the one-man prepares you for umpiring career like nothing else.

I had some prior softball experience, but my first baseball games were all one-man, or one-man with a "helper," which was usually not much help anyway. In fact, I would much rather work alone than with a) a helper, who knows very little about umpiring, or b) a real umpire who knows very little about umpiring.

The coaches in one-man games are supposed to cut you some slack on arguing plays such as the steal of second base, check swings, and tag-ups with multiple runners. At the pre-game, we remind them that there is just one umpire, and that sometimes we won't be able to see certain plays as well as if there were two of us. In reality, they tend to argue even more than normal, despite the reminders.

Sometimes, it can be fun, especially when the coach asks if you're sure the batter didn't go. You can say, "let me check with my partner....did he go? No, he didn't go!" Usually produces a laugh or two, and they get the point.

I also think it ridiculous to say that JV solo umpires should be paid substantialy less than Varsity umpires. Not only do the games not go as smoothly, but one-man umpires do work much harder and longer, call more pitches, hustle more (every ball hit is like your partner "went out"), and put up with more bullsh*t than in Varsity games.

I believe that amatuer umpires at all levels are underpaid, and should be paid more, regardless of the level. Whatever the market can bear, I say.

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Mar 5th, 2006 at 02:34 AM]

btdt · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 05, 2006, 02:01pm

My area ALL sub-varsity is one man.
Schools don't want to pay for two.

Doubt if they know we don't have the numbers to provide two for sub-varsity anyway. Hard enough to have two for all varsity on somedays.

Lone wolf sub-varsity pays ten bucks a game less. With shortage same people cover sub games time after time and don't get the oppertunity to develop two man system and advance. The good ole' boys won't lower themselves to do a few lower level games during the year to let someone else get some two man experience.

The powers that be, run off new guys as fast as they come in the door. The good ole' boy system .... kiss my &&& or you won't get far is sop. Kind of like eating your own....

[Edited by btdt on Mar 5th, 2006 at 02:08 PM]

Rich · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 05, 2006, 08:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SAump
Did I get this right? Your asking a man to work a game by himself for absolutely the same amount of money he would make as part of a 2-man crew. What about giving up the money to a worthier cause {alala the association}? I HOPE I just misread your intentions, otherwise I wholeheartedly disagree with those opinions.

You read me right. The goal is to work up to the better paying games, not see how much money you can make working JV games solo.

Like I said, I'd charge the school $70 for 1 or two umpires, but I certainly wouldn't give $70 to the umpire when varsity pays $55-$60. Varsity games should always pay more.

JRutledge · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 06, 2006, 03:13am

It is not about the money for all of us. I know I am not going to work a one man game on purpose. The fact that many work those kinds of games is the reason you do not get many baseball umpires in my area based on my personal opinion. Of course there are people that will disagree with my point of view and that is fine with me. I am not going to waste my time trying to take time off from my day job to chase some money that I can make not working a baseball game. To each his own and everyone has the right to do what works for them. I just know when I started outside of the Chicago area those games were all 2 Person games. I am not going to work something that is basically impossible to try to make a little extra money. Maybe this is why in our state we have umpires that only get a HS license so they can qualify to work games in their local Little League and make more money working multiple games from the spring to the summer. I guess whatever floats your boat.

Peace

MrB · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 06, 2006, 03:37pm

Rich,

What ever your reasoning is, I don't get it. If an Association and its schools agree to a game fee, and the association pays that fee to its officials then everyone is happy.

As for your argument, I bet most of the guys working 1 man would rather be working 2 man varsity games, but that isn't yet an option for many of them.

As far as recruitment and retension of new officials it seems that the original posters association will do better in this area than one that compensated officials like you are speaking of.

I bet you are probably against LL paying its umpires too. I know many very good officials, even pro guys that started out in LL for pay $20 a game is pretty good to a high school kid that wouldn't probably come out and get into umpiring otherwise.

Rich · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 06, 2006, 06:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MrB
Rich,

What ever your reasoning is, I don't get it. If an Association and its schools agree to a game fee, and the association pays that fee to its officials then everyone is happy.

As for your argument, I bet most of the guys working 1 man would rather be working 2 man varsity games, but that isn't yet an option for many of them.

As far as recruitment and retension of new officials it seems that the original posters association will do better in this area than one that compensated officials like you are speaking of.

I bet you are probably against LL paying its umpires too. I know many very good officials, even pro guys that started out in LL for pay $20 a game is pretty good to a high school kid that wouldn't probably come out and get into umpiring otherwise.

I'm not against paying LL umpires. Certainly not. They should be paid EVERY time they work. In my world they would be.

The reason I am against paying more for 1-man (yet less than a school pays for 2-man) is because it allows schools to HIRE ONE UMPIRE. I would charge a school $70, PERIOD. Either I'll pay one umpire $45 or 2 umpires $35 (or something like that), but I would CHARGE the same. So the school would then hire 2.

Of course, I don't have to worry about that. I live in WI and no WIAA sanctioned game at any level can be played with less than 2 umpires.

NIump50 · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 06, 2006, 06:50pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FVB9
FVB9 Wrote
[B]"Rich is absolutely right about this one. Incenting umpires to work "down" for more money is rewarding the wrong behavior."

I think the raise is a great idea.
The incentive should be to get the schools to have 2 umpires at all levels. Now for just a few extra bucks they get 2 umps at the JV game.

FVB9 wrote
"Also...I realize that a single umpire working a lower level game is exuding more energy (maybe) than two umpires working a Varsity contest. HOWEVER...the intensity of a Varsity contest (and the expectations bestowed upon Varsity umpires) requires a much stronger effort from us. I'm not saying Varsity umpires should be paid significantly more, but the thought of a first year rookie getting paid more on the Freshman-B field than the two State Playoff umpires on the Varsity field is mind boggling to me."

An argument that more experience deserves more money could fly, but not that Varsity officials put out more effort.
Are you saying the lower level officials mail it in, don't care as much or don't give as much effort?
In basketball and football the lower level officials get paid less but the quarters are shorter as well. A 7 inning JV game goes just as long, if not longer, than a varsity game.
Who do you really thinks has the most pressure.
A first year rookie doing a freshman game or a 10 year vet doing varsity?
That first year rookie has the weight of the world on him and he's on an island.
The solution is get 2 men on every game and pay the varsity guys more.

nickrego · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 07, 2006, 03:32am

The proper solution is to have 2 man crews for every game.

Then, you can pay the umpires less money for the sub-varsity games, in all fairness.

Then, the sub-varsity umpires would have an opportunity to develop the skills necessary to be a higher paid Varsity umpire.

As it is now, working alone, they only get good at working alone. So then you drop them on a field with a partner or two, and they fumble around like it was their first time, because they are really starting over - to a certain degree.

Schools will not pay for two umpires at the sub-varsity level, because they don't have the money, not because they don't think itÂ’s necessary.

I worked my way up to a Varsity schedule several years ago. I love it when they assign me a sub-varsity partner. Why, they still know how to hustle, and they want to improve (to work their way up to varsity). I'd rather deal with a mess due to a new guy trying to learn, than the messes I have to deal with working with partners that are too pompous to do a good job.

I get asked about 3 or 4 times each year to fill in on a sub-varsity game. I take the assignment without hesitation. Most of our varsity umpires turn their noses up at such a demeaning idea. When I get to that point, I think it will be time for me to quit.