baseline

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

Just out of curiosity, for those who are against what I said about teaching a cather what to do. Picture this play, and give me your calls

BR Bunts along 1st base line runs the entire way to first with his body staddling the foul line. Catcher fields the ball and throws to first:

1. A solid throw hitting the runner between the shoulder blades with runners Left foot on the ground and Right foot in the air.

If either foot is outside the running lane, the runner is considered out of the lane. In the air or not, if the last time the foot was on the ground it was out then I'll consider him out of the lane.
That said, there's still a lot of judgement left.
If F3 has moved to the outside and F2 throws to BR left shoulder blade, it may be judged as throwing at the runner, not interference.
If F3 is on the inside and F2 hits the shoulder, most likely interference.

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

2. A solid throw hitting the runner between the shoulder blades with runners Right foot on the ground and Left foot in the air..

Same as #1

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

3. Steps out toward either Fair or foul and throws a catchable Dart past First baseman into the out field..

If F3 has stepped to the outside and F3 steps outside and BR is inside I have nothing.
If F3 is inside, F2 is inside and BR is inside we have a problem

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

4. Steps out toward either Fair or foul and throws an uncatchable Dart past First baseman into the out field..

Same as #3

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

5. Lobs the ball over the runner, and out of the reach of the first baseman.

Fed. casebook says interference

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

6. Lobs the ball over the runner, and within the reach of the first baseman, but he drops it..

Could sell it either way. But probably Interference

If the bunt is right down the line, the proper technique is for F3 to set up on the outside, F2 to step to the outside and make the throw. (assuming catcher is RH, inside setup for LH catcher)
If F3 sets up outside and BR is hedging inside I've got nothing. no matter
If F3 sets up outside and BR hedges outside, now we have a situation.

F2 should never aim for BR. He should be getting in the best position to make a throw to F3, and that position depends on where F3 is setting up, then fire to his glove.

[DG]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

Just out of curiosity, for those who are against what I said about teaching a cather what to do. Picture this play, and give me your calls

BR Bunts along 1st base line runs the entire way to first with his body staddling the foul line. Catcher fields the ball and throws to first:

1. A solid throw hitting the runner between the shoulder blades with runners Left foot on the ground and Right foot in the air.
2. A solid throw hitting the runner between the shoulder blades with runners Right foot on the ground and Left foot in the air.
3. Steps out toward either Fair or foul and throws a catchable Dart past First baseman into the out field.
4. Steps out toward either Fair or foul and throws an uncatchable Dart past First baseman into the out field.
5. Lobs the ball over the runner, and out of the reach of the first baseman
6. Lobs the ball over the runner, and within the reach of the first baseman, but he drops it.

Now change the play slightly where the runner is completely in Fair territory the entire time. Same 6 senarios, whats the call.

How about this play? Runner is running in fair, catcher rares back and throws one, as per his coach's instructions, directly at the runner who is 30 feet from the bag. It hits him at the base of the neck just below the helmet, the batter runner is suddenly stunned and falls face and hands forward, he puts his hands out to break his fall and breaks both wrists, comes down on his face and breaks his nose and 4 of his front teeth out. Which side would you rather represent in court?

It is irresponsible to coach players to intentionally hurt each other. Better to coach the catcher to move his feet, and make the best throw he can directly to F3, and F3 should give him the best target to whatever side of the bag is best.

[Rcichon]

Boyinblue24: what are you talking about? See LL rule 6.05(j)

They don't mention the words, "running lane", but that's what they're talking about.

[3appleshigh]

DG--
well I know that you may not like it, but if that ball was thrown as described, IT IS AN OUT FOR INTERFERENCE. I also think you might be over stepping the possible outcomes a little. Also I am refering to upper big boy ball, where this stratagy is to be instructed, not young kids. In court, you would have an exceedingly difficult time proving liability against anyone, since the player was doing something that was against the rules when he ended up injured, due to a play that was a result of the catcher doing his proper job while the runner did not. I'm also sure it would be very difficult to prove what INTENT there was other than to throw the ball to First for the out, which is what the rule is there for. Run where you are supposed to and nothing should happen. Disobey the rules, and things could happen. An umpire who is afraid to make the right call because the player got hurt, is simply a Wuss.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by boyinblue24

Are you sure? Because I recall it was the other way around. Do you even work LL games??!!

First, I don't work LL games. But I know that LL rules are based on OBR with some revisions. For you to be correct, LL would have had to eliminate consideration of the running lane. Since I see running lanes lined out during televised LL games, I find this curious.

Do you have a rule book?

[LMan]

Originally Posted by GarthB

First, I don't work LL games. But I know that LL rules are based on OBR with some revisions. For you to be correct, LL would have had to eliminate consideration of the running lane. Since I see running lanes lined out during televised LL games, I find this curious.

Do you have a rule book?

heheheh

*whistles*

[Rich]

Originally Posted by boyinblue24

Are you sure? Because I recall it was the other way around. Do you even work LL games??!!

Dan, is this you?

Do you even own a rule book?

Thanks for helping with the general impression of Little League umpires.

[UmpJM]

boyinblue,

Are you sure? Because I recall it was the other way around. Do you even work LL games??!!

Yes, I am sure.

If Rich, or Garth, or Bob Jenkins (or any of a number of other posters who consistently appear to know what they are talking about) says something that you "...recall it was the other way around...", I would strongly encourage you to trust them over your own recollection. Unless, of course, you like being a Bozo umpire. You know, mildly entertaining on occasion, but not really very good.

I am sure because the LL RIM (2004 edition) says:

(k) in running the last half of the distance from home base to first base while the ball is being fielded to first base, the batter runner runs outside (to the right of) the three foot line, or inside (to the left of) the foul line and, in the umpire's judgment, interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base or attempting to field a batted ball;

“The Right Call” Casebook -- Comment: It’s always interference if the catcher’s or pitcher’s throw hits the batter-runner when he/she is not in the “lane”. The lines that mark the “lane” are part of the “lane” and the interpretation to be made is that a runner is required to have both feet within the three foot “lane” or on the lines marking the “lane.” If the throw is accurate to the first baseman and in the umpire’s judgment the runner interfered with the first baseman, it is interference.

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:

 There are two key elements to this rule that frequently are misunderstood: (1) the ball must be thrown in order for the runner to interfere with the “fielder taking the throw” and (2) the throw must be a reasonably catchable throw. A catcher who does not throw or who throws poorly should not be rewarded by having interference called.

 The umpire must be convinced that the thrown ball could have been caught had the runner not been in the way.

Now, the last time I "did" LL was in 1968 - as a player. Does it strike you as curious that I know this and you, who alledgedly umpire these games, don't?

JM

[GarthB]

Little Boy Blue, stop blowing your horn.
All your apologies are tired and worn.
Before sounding off don't you think you should look
At the posts of veterans, or maybe a rule book
Before engaging your mouth, try putting your brain in gear
And maybe you'll become less of a pain in the rear.


(Apologies to Mother Goose)

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by boyinblue24

Are you sure? Because I recall it was the other way around. Do you even work LL games??!!

OK, I bow to your infinite wisdom in LL games... so ... by the way - what's the running lane for then? Meaning ... if you're right, why even draw the lane at all?