New Umpire advise

[DG]

"High fly ball to SS over near 2b". Wind could be a factor in determining IFF, sun is not. It's not part of question 2 to assume something not presented. A high fly ball to SS over near 2b in this case is an IFF whether called or not. And why don't you just tell Grandma what really happened?

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by DG

"High fly ball to SS over near 2b". Wind could be a factor in determining IFF, sun is not. It's not part of question 2 to assume something not presented. A high fly ball to SS over near 2b in this case is an IFF whether called or not. And why don't you just tell Grandma what really happened?

Originally Posted by DG

Wind could be a factor in determining IFF, sun is not.

Wind is a factor. And you're joking about the sun right?

Originally Posted by DG

It's not part of question 2 to assume something not presented.

What part of my "contrarian" post do you not understand?

Originally Posted by DG

And why don't you just tell Grandma what really happened?

Apparently Grandma has a better understanding of what "grounder to first" means than you do.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Wind is a factor. And you're joking about the sun right?

What part of my "contrarian" post do you not understand?

Apparently Grandma has a better understanding of what "grounder to first" means than you do.

No I'm not joking. Do you make IFF calls when the ball reaches it's peak and then reverse the call when the fielder doesn't catch it because he lost it in the sun?

I understood your post completely. You read a simple play and questioned whether the positioning of the SS, the wind and the sun made it more difficult than it seemed (ie assumed something not presented) and therefore maybe not an IFF. I expect most others read "high fly ball to SS over near 2b" and instantly thought IFF.

A grounder toward F4 that F3 cuts off and throws back to F1 covering is not a grounder to first for most announcers of the game.

[3appleshigh]

I do declare, That I think Contrarian might mean the same as TROLL!

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by DG

#2 Runners on 1st and 2nd (I will refrain from using R1 on 2nd and R2 on 1st to keep from confusing anyone new), 1 out. High fligh ball to SS over near 2b, runner on 1b runs to 2b and is on his way to 3rd when he passes the runner on 2b who is coming back to the bag. They don't touch each other. SS takes his eye off the ball as the runner from 1b goes by and the runner on 2b takes a look at the runner from 1b who just passed him and as he does he is struck by the fly ball on it's way down.

What are the call(s)?

Working on the none out theroy, following the thread of what if's


OK, I think I got it now.....It may or may not have been an IFF, being the ball was hit by second base, it most likely wasn't a bunt, but could have been a hard push. It was high, so most likely not a line drive. It could have been a texas leaguer, then again, maybe not. The second baseman could have been camped under it, and maybe not, because it wasn't clearly stated, but than again, he could have been. Since it's not clearly stated we can't assume, because we all know what happens when we assume! What we do know...R1 passed R2. So we all agree there is at least one out. PHEWWW.... Now, did the SS allow the ball to drop, or did he not. Hmmmmm legal either way. If he let it drop he was hoping for a quick double play, risky off the bounce, but again legal. Or was it IFF and BR was out? I don't know because it could have been, or not been because a roadmap wasn't perfectly, clearly, without question, taking out all potiential what if's. Oh I got it...it's and NFHS test question! Could be anything. So was or was not the wind blowing? If so, how fast? and in what direction?? Gotta know, it COULD affect the ball, as well as my call of IFF or not. I now see the sun is part of the equation. HMMM OK now I need to know which direction the field is laid out... another darn factor to weigh in. So now I have to deal with R2 errr R1 errrr the guy who was on second who got hit by the ball. IF it's IFF, it's OK, if it isn't IFF he's out, now I'm a getting confused....which leaves me with the BR...if it's IFF he's out, but again, I don't know which to call because the angle of the sun, wind direction, field layout, how high the ball was, what position SS was at or was it a push bunt, oh no, what axis is the earth at for this play?? Gotta add that into the equation. Ahhh forget it....lets make it simple....I got three outs either damn way....I'm heading off the field, shaking my head...oh wait....I forgot what age, league, ability of SS, is it a 60 or 90 foot bases.....geezzzzzzz Ok.. pitch.... were doing it over, to many unanswered questions here.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Justme

If not don't worry.....it hasn't stopped a lot of guys from umpiring.

Or coaching.

[DTQ_Blue]

Hook up with a local Little League. Most of them will train you and give you games to work at a level you're comfortable with. You will soon learn whether you enjoy the work or not. If you do, you can stay with the little league and advance in the level of games you work... albeit volunteer, or find a local association and begin working and getting paid.

If you go the latter route you will be expected learn a lot more about rules, mechanics and game management, but if you enjoy umpiring it will be something you'll want to do anyway.

If you don't enjoy it, it's not worth doing. I've worked with guys who only do it for the money and it's not a positive experience for me.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

IT was only a hint. The ice pack isn't what's wrong with your answer.

She also says I'm dense at times too.

How does this work?

For this play, R2 (runner from 1st) would be out for passing R1 (runner from 2nd), ball still in play. R1 is safe at 2nd when the ball hits him since he is on a legally acquired bag. Two outs and an ice pack for R1. Do I have it now?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Welpe

She also says I'm dense at times too.

How does this work?

For this play, R2 (runner from 1st) would be out for passing R1 (runner from 2nd), ball still in play. R1 is safe at 2nd when the ball hits him since he is on a legally acquired bag. Two outs and an ice pack for R1. Do I have it now?

In the play at hand, I'm sure whoever posted it meant for the runner who started at second to be off the bag when he was hit by the ball. He's out. Triple play with no one from the defense touching the ball after it was hit.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

She also says I'm dense at times too.

How does this work?

For this play, R2 (runner from 1st) would be out for passing R1 (runner from 2nd), ball still in play. R1 is safe at 2nd when the ball hits him since he is on a legally acquired bag. Two outs and an ice pack for R1. Do I have it now?

Under which condition is R2 (runners starting at second in the normal world are designated R2) safe when the ball hits him on the bag?

Serious question (and there is a right and wrong answer).

BTW, to the poster above who said an IFF is an IFF whether declared or not, well, that depends. Yes, I agree, in a FED game. Only if an unwarranted double or triple play is obtained in an NCAA/OBR game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by archangel

Don, Im sure you are aware that IFF doesnt have to be called to be an IFF. As long as the IFF conditions are met, the defense and offense are expected to know the situation....

Again, this is true for a FED game and *might* be true in an NCAA/OBR game, but only if the defense gets ands unwarranted double or triple play.

This is covered well in the 2006 BRD, which appears to be the most current one since Carl won't tell anyone if there's a 2007 edition coming out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Under which condition is R2 (runners starting at second in the normal world are designated R2) safe when the ball hits him on the bag?

Serious question (and there is a right and wrong answer).

Infield Fly Rule.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Infield Fly Rule.

I was asking the other guy, Bob.

It seemed from his post that being on a "legally acquired base" was reason enough for him, but I was curious if he was just assuming that the play was an IFF.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

I do declare, That I think Contrarian might mean the same as TROLL!

When I wrote my post I thought I left enough room between the lines for everyone to catch my drift. Apparently I didn't dumb it down enough for the lowest common denominators among us.

Hopefully this will help.

I'm sure DG assumed that we would all assume it was an IFF,

Between the lines interp: I know DG was going for IFF in this sitch and I recognize it as such. But just for fun, since not every pop up in the IF is an IFF, lets see what the ruling would be in the event you, the umpire, judged this for whatever reason, as needing more than ordinary effort to make the play.
Also, since DGs original posting of this sitch was directed tongue in cheek at the new umps on the forum, it might be good to clarify that not every pop up in the infield has to be an IFF.


however, as a contrarian I chose not to make that assumption.

[Rcichon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcichon
IFF, BR out.
Runner on 1st out for passing Runner on 2nd.
That makes the 3rd out.


Did I blow it?

No, but I blew the example, try it with none out.

ok since IFF HTBT, here goes ---

R1 out for passing R2: Out #1
INT on R2: Out #2
BR safe at 1