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Example: If he's coming from 2nd, touches and overslides 3rd, then I have him between 3rd and home no matter which side of the bag he is on. If he rounds 3rd going for home then retreats and overruns, stumbles or overslides third coming back then I have him between 2nd and 3rd regardless of which way he stumbles after retouching. I agree that runners over run and overslide bases all the time, IMO that just puts them in the next baseline forward or backward depending on which way they were headed when they overslid. No need to get the measuring stick out to determine which baseline their closer too. Whether you agree or not is another issue, but based on my logic I'm sure you see it is very easy to determine when R3 has been passed. If my interp puts R3 between 2nd and 3rd and R2 is on 3rd, then R2 has passed R3 no matter where R3 is on the field. Quote:
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(poking fun at the theory, not the theorizer) |
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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The point of the original poster (a point I obviously disagree with, but it is the point that is actually under discussion) was that in a sitch like this, has R2 - who has obtained 3rd base - actually passed R3, who is in left field by a few steps. I still say no ... but this contention is the point under discussion. And if they are right, then R2 is out before any tag attempt on R3 even starts. (In response to what you've said, though, and at the risk of creating yet ANOTHER side conversation ... R3 is not out until he's either tagged, or runs out of the baseline to avoid a tag attempt. And R3 is not out if F5 tags him while he's on the base (which you seem to say, and did ACTUALLY say in a separate post). Falling over the base, by itself, is not enough to call him out. Not sure if that's what you meant to imply, but that's the way I read it.)
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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Picture just R3. He gets caught in a rundown, is running from the catcher, gets to the bag and can't stop. He can certainly run back toward 2nd. You're not going to call him out the moment he takes a step toward 2nd, are you?
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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Since he's not touching the bag, and he's not between scoring and third, where is he? That's why I think R2 should be out, he has advanced to a point on the basepaths closer to scoring than R3.
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"They can holler at the uniform all they want, but when they start hollering at the man wearing the uniform they're going to be in trouble."- Joe Brinkman Last edited by ctblu40; Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 02:16pm. |
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How was he confusing the defense (not you, the defense)? How was it a travesty? I'm really glad you're too far away to ever have one of my games.
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Rich Ives Different does not equate to wrong |
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"They can holler at the uniform all they want, but when they start hollering at the man wearing the uniform they're going to be in trouble."- Joe Brinkman |
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Anyone want Rick Roder's ruling?
I just received an e-mail back from Mr. Roder with an answer to this question... interested?
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"They can holler at the uniform all they want, but when they start hollering at the man wearing the uniform they're going to be in trouble."- Joe Brinkman |
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ctblu40,
Quit teasing and spill the beans! I'd be very curious to hear if Rick was able to make any sense of this thread. JM
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Finally, be courteous, impartial and firm, and so compel respect from all. |
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Ok... here it is!
My outgoing e-mail:
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I bow to you and am humbled by your presence.... now where's my plate of Crow?
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"They can holler at the uniform all they want, but when they start hollering at the man wearing the uniform they're going to be in trouble."- Joe Brinkman |
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In our case, we have R3 between 3rd and 2nd with F5 between R3 and 3rd. So he is now in a run down between 3rd and 2nd and may legally retreat to 2nd base. R2 is out for allowing himself to get in front of R3. |
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In the situation that began this thread Sa is right, R3 cannot return to 2nd, though it is not always the case. A runner can legally obtain a base then retreat to a previous base as long as the base is unoccupied and the pitcher has not assumed his pitching position. The fact that R3 cannot legally retreat back to 2nd does not prevent him from being in the 2nd to 3rd baseline. IMHO F2 is chasing R3 back to 3rd, R2 is on 3rd, R3 overruns 3rd directly down the line. The limbo theory, I think, considers R3 to be equal with R2 at this point, not behind. Therefore, theoretically speaking, R3 is on the bag. As F5 gets to the bag he tags R2, who is standing on the bag. Out or Safe? Here is the key R2 can only be safe if you deem R3 to be ahead of R2 in the baseline. If R2 is equal to or ahead of R3 he is out. I've got two outs and happy. |
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The BASE LINE is the direct line between bases. The other thing you have described is the basePATH, and is a completely different thing. And I think this one finally pushed me over the edge. I vow to no longer engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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