Wild Pitch and Balk

[tibear]

Looking to get some assistance for another thread again.

Situation:R1 count of 2 -2. Balk is called on a wild pitch where R1 attempts to get to third base but is thrown out.

Discussion is about whether the balk is enforced since the BR did not reach first (pitch would be ignored and runner placed on 2nd) or is the balk ignored(count is now 3-2 and runner is out)

8.05 has two sections:
PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.


The Penalty section clearly indicates that the balk should be enforced because the BR didn't reach first, however does the Approved Ruling superceed the Penalty section because of the wild pitch??

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tibear

Looking to get some assistance for another thread again.

Situation:R1 count of 2 -2. Balk is called on a wild pitch where R1 attempts to get to third base but is thrown out.

Discussion is about whether the balk is enforced since the BR did not reach first (pitch would be ignored and runner placed on 2nd) or is the balk ignored(count is now 3-2 and runner is out)

8.05 has two sections:
PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.


The Penalty section clearly indicates that the balk should be enforced because the BR didn't reach first, however does the Approved Ruling superceed the Penalty section because of the wild pitch??

The balk is *ignored* for the runner (since he advanced a base; thus the out stands), but *enforced* for the batter (the pitch is ignored and the batter remains with a 2-2 count)

[Don Mueller]

If it's Fed. it's a dead ball immediatel when the balk is called. r1 advances one base.
I'll take a stab at MLB, but this needs to be confirmed....
My understanding of MLB, it's a delayed call. r1 has option of attempting 3rd, if thrown out and batter did not advance, offense has option of accepting penalty with no put out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

If it's Fed. it's a dead ball immediatel when the balk is called. r1 advances one base.
I'll take a stab at MLB, but this needs to be confirmed....
My understanding of MLB, it's a delayed call. r1 has option of attempting 3rd, if thrown out and batter did not advance, offense has option of accepting penalty with no put out.

There is never an option on a balk.

[johnnyg08]

The hitter could swing at the pitch and get a hit though...

[tibear]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The balk is *ignored* for the runner (since he advanced a base; thus the out stands), but *enforced* for the batter (the pitch is ignored and the batter remains with a 2-2 count)

So you're saying the balk is ignored AND enforced on the same play. That's got to be fun to explain to the coaches!!!

Just to reinforce:

Situation: R1 and R3. Wild pitch with balk call. R1 takes second and rounds thinking about stealing third. R1 notices that R3 had a brain fart and is still standing on third. R1 is then thrown out going back to second.

In this situation, because R3 never advanced a base, the balk is enforced. The ball is dead, R3 is awarded home and R1 is awarded second. Everyone is safe.

OR

Because it is a wild pitch, the Approved Ruling section kicks in and: Ball is dead, R3 is awarded home and because R1 had advanced past his awarded base the out stands.

Which result is correct??

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by tibear

So you're saying the balk is ignored AND enforced on the same play. That's got to be fun to explain to the coaches!!!

STOP! You will get into trouble if you explain it that way!

In your first scenario, you started with R1, correct? If there is a balk, R1 is Protected only to second base. If R1 goes beyond second, he is on his own.

Now, if you explain it that way to a coach, he will understand you. More importantly, if you remember it that way, you will apply the rule correctly in any situation! Simply remember where the runner started and how far he is protected. The rest is academic.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

STOP! You will get into trouble if you explain it that way!

In your first scenario, you started with R1, correct? If there is a balk, R1 is Protected only to second base. If R1 goes beyond second, he is on his own.

Now, if you explain it that way to a coach, he will understand you. More importantly, if you remember it that way, you will apply the rule correctly in any situation! Simply remember where the runner started and how far he is protected. The rest is academic.

So infact your inforcing the balk for both runner AND batter but indicating the dead ball situation doesn't apply until the play is dead. Since R1 choose to proceed past his awarded base he is out.

What about the second situation that I presented with R1 and R3??

If I was to take a stab using the original situation as a basis: R3 is awarded home and R1 is out because he proceed past his awarded base.

[Durham]

If you use the term "At his own risk" you will becovered and potentially never forget the rule.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

The hitter could swing at the pitch and get a hit though...

And if he does the balk is ignored (OBR).

[LMan]

You know, if yall would just drink the FED Kool-Aid, you could avoid all these nasty complications

[LMan]

Originally Posted by tibear

In this situation, because R3 and the BR never advanced a base, the balk is enforced. The ball is dead, R3 is awarded home and R1 is awarded second. Everyone is safe.

.................