BALK OR ILLEGAL PITCH

[barisadlertx]

with regard to foot placement and the rubber. the rule clearly states that the width of the foot must be in contact with the rubber, not beside it. so in a stretch, does the pitcher need to be standing on the rubber (technically) if the opposing coach is appealing?

[GarthB]

When I begin to find opposing coaches appealing, I'll give up the game.

[Tim C]

Trough "tradition and usage" the rules now allow the pitcher to have his foot slightly in front of the pitcher's plate located in what usually becomes a depression.

If a coach complains I would simply laugh at him.

But that's me.

Tee

[tucktheump]

you answered the question yourself when you said "the rule clearly states that the width of the foot must be in contact with the rubber, not beside it." where does it say he has to be "on top of it"?

from the stretch: if the side of the foot is touching the rubber, then the pitcher is "in contact" with it.

[gsf23]

Tim C

I have complained about this at times as a coach. The pitcher though was about 3-4 inches away from the rubber. I wouldn't complain if he was slightly off, but that far I thought I had to at least ask.

[GarthB]

The pitcher though was about 3-4 inches away from the rubber. I wouldn't complain if he was slightly off, but that far I thought I had to at least ask.

This becomes an issue of practicality. Often, over time, the depression that pitchers create in front of the rubber "inches" forward as dirt begins to collect between the shoe and the mound. As long as they are making contact with the back of the depression and they haven't attempted to move the depression farther forward, I give them credit for contact with the rubber.

[Tim C]

"I have complained about this at times as a coach."

What term would we use for a coach that is an "OOO"?

You come to me and the guy is NOT Whitey Ford (it is said that Whitey, during the late 50's and early 60's, worked at least 12" in front of the pitcher's plate) I would laugh, look at the hole and say, "Play Ball!"

Sheesh,

Tee

[Bfair]

The rules also require that when in the set position the pivot is to be within the ends of and parallel to the rubber. Custom and practice typically allows up to perhaps half the foot to extend beyond the ends of the rubber---especially so on poorly groomed fields.

If you give them and inch and he wants to take a mile, talk to pitcher to correct the issue before considering any penalty. Let him know what criteria YOU are applying.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[barisadlertx]

good deal... i have seen problems with this, and know have some answers! thanks guys!

"lets play two"

[gsf23]

Tim C

The reason I ask about it now is that we had a situation where a pitcher was about 4 inches from the rubber, was pitching like that for a while, never said anything. We get a runner at third, pitcher is in same position, foot about 4 inches off the rubber, standing straight up looking at our runner at third taking his lead. Without lifting his non-pivot foot or stepping off, he snaps a throw over to third, picks off our runner. I ask the ump about a balk because he didn't step off or pick up his non-pivot foot and I get told that he didn't have to because he wasn't in contact with the rubber.

That is why I ask. It is not because I am trying to be a hardass or show off my knowledge or because I think I am Joe Torre or that the other pitcher is Randy Johnson or whatever. I don't want to be put in that same situation again.


[Edited by gsf23 on Mar 6th, 2003 at 01:30 PM]

[Bfair]

My guess, gsf23, is that your judgment and the official's judgment didn't coincide.
It may be no different than those poor souls who got voted off Weakest Link when, in fact, they weren't the weakest link..............
Unfortunately for you, it's his judgment that counted, and we have yet to hear his side.

If you want your judgment to count, then consider the Dark Side........


Freix

[gsf23]

Bfair

And that is why I ask, so I know what his judgement is going to be. Maybe I used the wrong choice of words when I say complain. If I see the pitcher and there is a good sized gap between the rubber and his foot, now I'm not talking about slightly off, I'm talking 4,5 6, inches, then I will just ask the ump if he is on the rubber. If the umpire says yes, that's fine with me. Now it has been covered. I don't go running out of the dugout screaming and yelling like an idiot, but I guess that's how most of you think coaches act like when they come out to question a call.

By the way, I am FED certified, umped for 10 years before I went into coaching the last couple of years. I also do NAIA baseball and amatuer baseball.

[Tim C]

I have re-read your posts and you logic escapes me:

In the original post you left out critical information. It was not mentioned that this was an issue about the judgement betwix you and the PU. You acted like "gee can a guy do this while pitching?"

Then you come back and say, "Oh yeah, this was REALLY about a pickoff at third when my guy got caught with his hands in his pants!"

Internet umpires can only answer to the question as placed . . . you hiding of the real issue just makes it a waste of cyber time to answer when you have a totally different agenda than what is asked.

"By the way, I am FED certified, umped for 10 years before I went into coaching the last couple of years. I also do NAIA baseball and amatuer baseball."

If this is true then the whole thread is a fake on your part. As an umpire that works NAIA you all ready know (or is that "should know") the rule.

It appears to me, in my opinion that is, that you had an entirely different agenda than what the question asked.

What was your "real" intent?

(The Original & Ever Slimming)

Tee

[gsf23]

Tee

Bari and I are not the same person. Bari made the original post. Not me. The reason for my post was that you had said that if a coach ever questioned you on this, you would laugh at him. I only replied with the reason why I ask about it at times, and gave you the sitiuation that has caused me to ask about it. Again, I don't make a big production out of it, I don't stop the game and get all eyes on me or anything like that I just simply ask "is he on the rubber?" If the ump says "yes", that's fine with me, end of discussion and I don't ask or bring it up again, I just want to know.

As an umpire that works NAIA you all ready know (or is that "should know") the rule.

What rule is it that you think I don't know?


[Edited by gsf23 on Mar 7th, 2003 at 11:21 AM]

[Tim C]

Please accept my apology.

As an idiot, I combined Bari's post with yours.

I placed Bari in the position of being a coach that also umpires.

Again, I apologize.

(The Original & Ever Slimming -- except for my fat head)

Tee