"Help" Plays

[Justme]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

Here's one that has been bothering me for a while.

Does anybody out there have an authoritative list of "help" plays?

NCAA guidelines:

An umpire is urged to seek help when his view is blocked or positioning prevents him from seeing crucial elements of a play. An umpire is also encouraged to seek help in instances when he has any doubt and a partner has additional information that could lead to the proper ruling.

In the situations listed below, a partner who is 100% certain he has additional information unknown to the umpire making the call should approach unsolicited and alert the other umpire to such information. However, the ultimate decision to change a call rests with the calling umpire.
1) Deciding if a home run is fair or foul.
2) Deciding whether a batted ball left the playing field for a home run or ground rule double.
3) Cases where a foul tip is dropped or trapped by the catcher.
4) Cases where a foul fly ball is caught or not caught.
5) Cases when an umpire clearly errs in judgment because they did not see the ball dropped or juggled after making a tag or force.
6) Spectator interference plays.
7) Balks called by an umpire who clearly did not realize the pitcher’s foot was off the rubber.

Umpires are not to seek help on plays which they are 100% confident in their judgment and view of the play. Head coaches are not entitled to a second opinion when the calling umpire is certain his decision is correct. On the other hand, and contrary to past practice, umpires are not to “die with a call” in cases where a) the calling umpire is not 100% certain he is right; and b) another umpire has additional information which could lead to a proper ruling. Both NCAA philosophy and umpire integrity – consistent with NCAA rules – dictate that calls be reversed in this situation.

Judgment calls, which have traditionally not been subject to reversal include: steal and other tag plays (except if the ball is dropped without the umpire’s knowledge as discussed above); force plays (when the ball is not dropped and foot is not pulled); balls and strikes (other than check swings). This practice shall continue. Also, some calls cannot be reversed without creating larger problems. An example is a “catch/no catch” with multiple runners.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Dropped foul tips should be called by BU immediately without waiting to be asked, as should dropped or juggled balls on tag plays.

Edited: That is to say on dropped or juggled balls, the BU should alert the PU immediately to the fact that the ball is laying on the ground, and you a big dummy, Lamont.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by Justme

NCAA guidelines:
[...]

BigUmp56 posted a similar set of guidelines from the MLBUM in the Over Rule thread.

-LilLeaguer

[JRutledge]

On a dropped third strike, the BU should do nothing and give help after the play is over.

On a dropped ball on tag plays no one should do anything until being asked or after the play is over. It is possible that the helping umpire did not see how the ball got on the ground and would be coming in too early to help when the call is appropriately made.

Peace

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

On a dropped third strike, the BU should do nothing and give help after the play is over.

i believe i have read an "advanced mechanic" on here stating that if there is an uncaught third strike, and the batter attempts to check his swing, the BU should immediately give his call -- the one he would make if he would be appealed to -- rather than wait.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

i believe i have read an "advanced mechanic" on here stating that if there is an uncaught third strike, and the batter attempts to check his swing, the BU should immediately give his call -- the one he would make if he would be appealed to -- rather than wait.

I have heard a similar mechanic as well, but I have never read or been taught that is the proper thing to do in this specific situation. That does not mean you could not do that, I just think you should not make a call in this situation without some the PU asking. I have been taught to give silent signals to indicate that we have the ball hitting the dirt or not (if the BU can see it), but those signals are not obvious to everyone and are there to allow the PU to make an "educated" call. I also think the catcher has to be smart enough to know the situation or the possible call and either tag the runner or throw/not throw the ball to first base.

Peace

[LMan]

What about Catcher's INT (OBS)? If there's a question as to whether the bat hit the catcher's mitt, can the PU ask the BU for information on this?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by LMan

What about Catcher's INT (OBS)? If there's a question as to whether the bat hit the catcher's mitt, can the PU ask the BU for information on this?

I suppose he could ask for help, but I don't see why he ever would. More often than not the CI call is made on sound. The PU definetly will hear the bat contact the mitt while the BU may not.


Tim.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I suppose he could ask for help, but I don't see why he ever would.

ohhh, you might be surprised

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

On a dropped ball on tag plays no one should do anything until being asked or after the play is over. It is possible that the helping umpire did not see how the ball got on the ground and would be coming in too early to help when the call is appropriately made.

I was referring to plays at the plate where the catcher clearly dropped the ball, and for whatever reason, the PU was the only person in attendance who did not see it. You are supposed to bring this to his attention, so he can correct his call which was obviously wrong. Close plays where the ball may or may not have come loose after the play was over are not included in this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I was referring to plays at the plate where the catcher clearly dropped the ball, and for whatever reason, the PU was the only person in attendance who did not see it. You are supposed to bring this to his attention, so he can correct his call which was obviously wrong. Close plays where the ball may or may not have come loose after the play was over are not included in this.

That is why I feel you should discuss this kind of play with your partner to make sure you are not stepping on toes or making two different calls at the same time. I just do not like the BU making calls immediately when the PU likely has something different. I just think communication with your partner are key and make sure that both of you (or all of you) are on the same page.

Peace

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by Justme

NCAA guidelines:
1) Deciding if a home run is fair or foul.
2) Deciding whether a batted ball left the playing field for a home run or ground rule double.
3) Cases where a foul tip is dropped or trapped by the catcher.
4) Cases where a foul fly ball is caught or not caught.
5) Cases when an umpire clearly errs in judgment because they did not see the ball dropped or juggled after making a tag or force.
6) Spectator interference plays.
7) Balks called by an umpire who clearly did not realize the pitcher’s foot was off the rubber.

This, at least, gives me a starting point. Thanks, Just. Is this in the CCA Manual, on the website, where?

Strikes and outs!

[Justme]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

This, at least, gives me a starting point. Thanks, Just. Is this in the CCA Manual, on the website, where?

Strikes and outs!

Here's where it comes from. The NCAA softball Umpire's Manual is online which says the same thing but I haven't been able to locate an online baseball umpire's manual yet.

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/cham...nsToUmps05.pdf

[mbyron]

To answer an early question in this thread: when coach asks you "why can't he get help?" after you've told him that it's your partner's call (or yours, or whatever), tell him: "Coach, that's the two umpire system, and I don't have time to explain it to you right now. If you would like to read the manual, I can give you a reference after the game."

He might whine that it's not in the rulebook (which was likely where the original question was going anyway). You can tell him that there's a lot more to both umpiring and coaching than just knowing the rules.

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by mbyron

To answer an early question in this thread: when coach asks you "why can't he get help?" after you've told him that it's your partner's call (or yours, or whatever), tell him: "Coach, that's the two umpire system, and I don't have time to explain it to you right now. If you would like to read the manual, I can give you a reference after the game."

He might whine that it's not in the rulebook (which was likely where the original question was going anyway). You can tell him that there's a lot more to both umpiring and coaching than just knowing the rules.

The last time I tried to explain mechanics to a coach during a game, I almost had to dump him, so I have given up on that. I now quietly take the "You weren't in the right position to make that call" crap as long as it is brief and not personally disrespectful, tell the coach thank you, and go on about my business.

The two-man (no sexism intended) system is limited, and we all know that. I am going to miss some things in the two man system, period. It is amazing what another pair of eyes on the field does to improve the quality of umpiring for everybody. Hopefully, if you follow the Nauert/PBUC model, two sets of eyes will rarely be in the same place, especially after the ball is hit.

Strikes and outs!