Positions B and C

[SanDiegoSteve]

How many baseball games have you ever worked that lasted an hour? What level was this, T-Ball? Why make such a remark? - mick

Mick,

I made the remark because of the stupid remark by Jeff that a) umpires stand in one place, and b) that baseball games are one hour in length. Had these bizarre statements not been posted, I would have had no need to ask the level of baseball, since only a T-Ball game could be one hour in length. I feel that it is a perfectly good question to ask an obvious expert on the subject.

[mick]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

How many baseball games have you ever worked that lasted an hour? What level was this, T-Ball? Why make such a remark? - mick

Mick,

I made the remark because of the stupid remark by Jeff that a) umpires stand in one place, and b) that baseball games are one hour in length. Had these bizarre statements not been posted, I would have had no need to ask the level of baseball, since only a T-Ball game could be one hour in length. I feel that it is a perfectly good question to ask an obvious expert on the subject.

Hello SanDiegoSteve,
...But nobody else felt the need to reply to Rut's obvious overstatement.
What you may actually *need* may be the question.

If you say a T-ball game last for an hour, I believe you.
If you say an umpire [maybe on third base ?] cannot ever stand in one place for an hour, that is something I have never timed.

mick

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

How many baseball games have you ever worked that lasted an hour? What level was this, T-Ball? Why make such a remark? - mick

I just got done working 3 games on Saturday, one-man mechanics, from 9 AM to after 5PM. I'm sunburned like a freakin' lobster, and could barely walk from my back/hip Saturday night. Now that's work.

Standing in one place? If that is how you umpire, I feel real sorry for the teams that get you. I hustle my butt off when I do baseball, or any other sport. I used to do 3 and 4 football games on a Saturday, working the flanks on Pop Warner games where all you do is sprint back and forth down the field on 90 yard touchdown plays all the live-long doo dah day.

Dude relax. What I said had a lot of tongue and cheek involved. I do not do many games of any kind that last an hour. But to try to tell me that I am doing more running and constant moving in baseball games as I am working a football or basketball game is silly. I know you think baseball is so hard, but most of the time I am standing in the same place for minutes on end. On a football play I am likely moving on every single play and during dead ball periods. I am also not comparing Pop Warner to a HS varsity or college game.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I used to have the privledge of working one-man basketball from top-of-the-key to top-of-the-key. I did 3 games back-to-back-to-back twice a week for the top A-League in the SDSU Inter-Fraternity Rec League, where all the slam-dunkin' brothers played. That was also quite a workout.

Everyone does not work one man games. I know I almost never work one man games or attempt to work one man games. I have worked one man basketball games during the summer and I moved more in those games than in 5 minutes of play than I ever have on a baseball field.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Even after all that, I still say baseball is much harder. It's much harder to call 250 to 300 pitches a game than call some fouls or throw a penalty flag once in a while. Sheesh.

Yes you might have 300 pitches if you are working the plate. That is only about half the time if you are lucky when you actually work a baseball game. I am not running 50 feet to call a single pitch. It is also not like every pitch I have to seriously rule on. Batters swing at pitches; balls hit the dirt or fly over the catcher’s head. I know we would all like to think we are constantly making decisions, but the reality is we are only making calls on some of those pitches.

Yes, I might only blow my whistle in a basketball game 20 times (that might be high in a 3 man game), you have to do that running, trying to get in position and it is not like you are yelled at for only the times you blow the whistle. You get yelled at quite a bit more for what you

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

BTW, I do know Mr. Gregg. I've played some softball with the man. He is a great guy, and was a damn good umpire. Why you want to disparage him is beyond me.

War

He might have been a very good umpire, but Eric Gregg was basically the shinning example of why Major League Umpires were criticized all the time in the 90s. He was fat and out of shape. There was an umpire that died on the field from having a heart attack. Eric Gregg took a leave of absence after that tragedy to try to lose weight so the same thing did not happen to him. Then when he came back to the Majors he looked just about the same as he did before he left. He is probably the most famous name out there, but a lot of those guys looked like they did not miss a meal they did not like and they were the laughing stock of pro officials. If you look at the guys that have arrived since the Phillip’s experiment, none of them look like Gregg did and they got rid of a lot of guys that looked like that when they had the opportunity to bring them back. I think if we agree on nothing else, no one looking like Gregg would be allowed to work in the NFL or the NBA. All the other stuff is just hyperbole and **** talking.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Jeff,

I am mostly comparing working the plate in the hot sun (nearly every day here) in full plate gear, working all day long to working a football game.

I know that HS football games have an extra official on each flank, so there isn't as much running as in a 3 or 4 man Pop Warner crew. The HL and FJ's responsibility is passed on to those 2 plus a Back Judge too.

You are correct, there is not as much sustained running in baseball. But there are other factors besides running involved. I just feel that having done all three sports, that baseball is the more difficult of the three. I also have enjoyed doing baseball so much more than basketball or football, so it's the only sport which I continued officiating.

It's hard for me to tell when what you say is tongue-in-cheek, and when you are serious. Most of the time you are pretty darn serious.

[mick]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Jeff,


It's hard for me to tell when what you say is tongue-in-cheek, and when you are serious. Most of the time you are pretty darn serious.

SanDiegoSteve,
He just sounds serious on days when he hasn't had a hug.
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Then where would these states have the BU with only R3?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Since a steal of third isn't possible with R3 only, these states put the umpire in B.

[Carl Childress]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Since a steal of third isn't possible with R3 only, these states put the umpire in B.

I recommended that in 1988. Seems some places caught on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Jeff,

I am mostly comparing working the plate in the hot sun (nearly every day here) in full plate gear, working all day long to working a football game.

This is an opinion. If you think working all day in the hot sun is so difficult, then so be it. My point was not what the elements are, the point was what it normally takes to get in position to make calls, the type of calls you have make and the way you have to make those calls. I worked a game in the cold (I will take a warm day anytime) and I was working the bases and all I did was stand. Every call I could have made from my car and I ran more between innings than I did actually during the game (someone else made a similar statement).

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I know that HS football games have an extra official on each flank, so there isn't as much running as in a 3 or 4 man Pop Warner crew. The HL and FJ's responsibility is passed on to those 2 plus a Back Judge too.

I did not know we had a FJ in HS football. At least here we do not.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

You are correct, there is not as much sustained running in baseball. But there are other factors besides running involved. I just feel that having done all three sports, that baseball is the more difficult of the three. I also have enjoyed doing baseball so much more than basketball or football, so it's the only sport which I continued officiating.

That statement says a lot. I work all three for about the same amount of time. I also work all at similar levels.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It's hard for me to tell when what you say is tongue-in-cheek, and when you are serious. Most of the time you are pretty darn serious.

Have a sense of humor man. Remember this thread is basically about what mechanics are better than another and why one position is better when both are basically in the same place. This is like 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other. Or better yet if the Sopranos are better than ER or the West Wing. It is all about taste in the end.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Rut,

Gee, I thought the "are you serious" smiley, and the little smiley face were pretty obvious examples of having a sense of humor.

I tried to be funny with you before, remember? The Eminem lyrics posting, to which you responded in kind. Then I also explained what my black friends thought of me, how they didn't see me as black or white, they saw me as Steve? You proceeded to label me incorrectly as a racist as I recall, saying that you didn't care how many of my friends were black, and yada, yada, yada. So I thought perhaps you didn't have a sense of humor yourself. Most of your posts are of a serious nature, so how is one to know you're being funny?

Ask anyone who knows me. Ask Tim Haag if I have a sense of humor. Jeez Alou, 50% or more of my comments are tongue-in-cheek. I go out of my way to indicate that what I'm saying is a joke by the overuse of smilies!

BTW, when I worked football, the official on the flank directly opposite the Head Linesman was known as the Field Judge. He is the one who signals covered/uncovered with HL, and also has the 25 second clock, and initiates delay-of-game penalty. What do you call this official? I'm guessing Side Judge.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by SAump

Yeah, I lost some good money at one of them CLINIQUE places.

yep, those cosmetics can get quite expensive.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Rut,

Gee, I thought the "are you serious" smiley, and the little smiley face were pretty obvious examples of having a sense of humor.

I tried to be funny with you before, remember? The Eminem lyrics posting, to which you responded in kind. Then I also explained what my black friends thought of me, how they didn't see me as black or white, they saw me as Steve? You proceeded to label me incorrectly as a racist as I recall, saying that you didn't care how many of my friends were black, and yada, yada, yada. So I thought perhaps you didn't have a sense of humor yourself. Most of your posts are of a serious nature, so how is one to know you're being funny?

You lost me on this statement. Now you are telling me about Black friends you once had and conversations I do not even remember or have the time to concern myself with. Actually a lot of my post if not most have a humor side to them. I do not take anything in officiating that seriously. After all it is a hobby and I cannot get upset over something that does not pay the bills or is going to give me retirement. Just because I do not put a smiley on every post and guys like try to read too much into my posts does not mean I do not use humor. You talked about what people know about you. Just about anyone that knows me I joke, laugh and try to have a good time just about anytime I am doing something. Save the "I am not a racist" speech because nothing you say is going to change what I may or may not feel about you. I do not even know you and I have never met you. I seriously hope you are not going to change minds by that little rant?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Ask anyone who knows me. Ask Tim Haag if I have a sense of humor. Jeez Alou, 50% or more of my comments are tongue-in-cheek. I go out of my way to indicate that what I'm saying is a joke by the overuse of smilies!

Once again get a grip. I do not need to ask anyone that knows you. I do not know anyone that knows you personally. Even the people that come here do not know me very well, they only know me from a far or when I might occasionally talk to each other.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

BTW, when I worked football, the official on the flank directly opposite the Head Linesman was known as the Field Judge. He is the one who signals covered/uncovered with HL, and also has the 25 second clock, and initiates delay-of-game penalty. What do you call this official? I'm guessing Side Judge.

The official you are describing is called the Line Judge (in all 5 man mechanics that I know of). It has been that way for at least 10 years that I have been working football. The Side Judge and Field Judge are the wings on a 7 man crew. Now if you worked on a 7 man crew in HS that would not be typical for most of us unless you lived in places like Texas and maybe Pennsylvania. There are no Side Judges or Field Judges in 5 man crews. Now maybe you worked longer than 10 years and that was the position names, but not in the current day. (Is that good enough for you? )

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

JRutledge, not all of us can be thin and healthy. I am, are you, if so good. On this board we have a lot of fat guys (I guess they are fat otherwise they would not call themselves bigump or sasquatch or other memebr names). Eric Gregg is a kind soul and I got to talk to him one time out in California. What a nice guy. I wish he had better control of his beer intake, wow, six talls in about 30 minutes. Maybe it was because I was buying and listening to his tales of the MLB. Real interesting.

I did not say he was not a nice guy. I can tell you I have worked games in other sports with guys that look a lot like Gregg and the main thing people say about guys are their weight or their look. It is also assumed that they are not in very good position to make calls (true or not). The thing is we are judged as official/umpires by what people see. If you are overweight or your uniform looks bad, you have to overcome a perception that might be not at all true and work harder to convince others that you can work properly.

Whether any of us like it or not Eric Gregg was for the most part a punch line. That might not have been fair, but his look was the reason for much of those kinds of comments. He was certainly not the only one, but he was the most well known.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Rut,

I never said you weren't a racist.

I was simply reminding you of a post in which you cracked back on me hard, kind of like the one you just made. I wasn't trying to "change your mind" about anything. I am not racist, and I could care less if you think I am or not. The point was that I am color blind when it comes to judging people, which you have proven not to be. Once again, the point went right over your head. You sure are awfully beligerent and combative for someone who signs their posts "peace."

War

[mick]

Steve and Rut,
Why not take this to private E-mails, or just drop it?
Thanks.
mick

[SanDiegoSteve]

You got it, Mick.