Positions B and C

[Kaliix]

Somebody posted this visual/picture last year that always helped me remember the positions to be in. I think one position wasn't textbook, but it has always worked for me.

You in B when the runners are in the following positions:

_____1st

__1st___3rd

1st__2nd__3rd


In all others you are in position C (except with no runners on, obviously). The pyramid visual helps one remember it for some reason. (Ignore the underlines, they are just for spacing so that it looks like a pyramid)

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by DG
I am glad I don't work in IL or NH were umpires are forced to work in positions not endorsed by CCA, PBUC, or Fed for that matter. Sounds like they want to sacrifice the call for consistency of positioning.

Well, now I'm curious. What positions are you referring to that you're glad you're not forced to work in?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, now I'm curious. What positions are you referring to that you're glad you're not forced to work in?

I'm sure he means "B" with R3, R2 and R3, or bases loaded.

[officialtony]

Forgive my lack of experience on this but . . . .
does it make a difference if the pitcher is right or left handed for your location?

Or if you have a right or left handed batter?

[officialtony]

Thank you.
I have seen umpires move from B to C when a batter comes up batting left handed. I understood what they were doing, but didn't understand why they thought it was OK, if that's not how we are supposed to position ourselves.
I appreciate the response.

[DG]

A LH pitcher is an excellent reason to follow CCA and PBUC mechanic to be in B rather than FED mechanic to be in C with runners on 1st and 3rd.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG
A LH pitcher is an excellent reason to follow CCA and PBUC mechanic to be in B rather than FED mechanic to be in C with runners on 1st and 3rd.

Why? What the heck is the difference?

[DG]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why? What the heck is the difference?

Twenty feet.

[briancurtin]

oh well that solves it

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why? What the heck is the difference?

The only reason I can see for B in this case (and sometimes I will go to B in this case) is when you have a crafty lefty with a close-to-a-balk-move reputation, or some weird motion. Being in B gives you a little better look at the 45 degree angle/step toward first aspect. It also lets you see the front edge/free foot (FED), or back edge/free foot (OBR) relationship for the purposes of calling balks.

All that being said, I still usually prefer C.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Our association always taught that the plate guy has the primary responsibility on the pitcher from the waist up, and the BU for the waist down, with both umpires calling all balks they see.

[David B]

Originally posted by officialtony
Thank you.
I have seen umpires move from B to C when a batter comes up batting left handed. I understood what they were doing, but didn't understand why they thought it was OK, if that's not how we are supposed to position ourselves.
I appreciate the response.

I had a game today and one of our college umpires was moving from B to C depending on the batter. I didn't ask him about it, but it was really stupid.

There is no reason to move.

As far as B, C, I try to stay in B at all times if possible. That is tried and tested for 25 years of calling all levels of baseball.

I see guys that prefer C and if I work in an association that wants me to work that way I will.

But I don't think its best and I don't teach it that way.

I find I have the best angle on a steal at 3rd from B and it keeps me closer to first.

I see too many guys in C making the call at first from position C. They incorrectly stay put and don't move closer to first, or move to get the best angle possible. Ball hit to F5, the umpire in C has a horrible angle on the throw unless he moves. Same with ball hit to F6, or if F6 is charging a short hop.

Position C can be a good position, but as with other positions, if not worked on and used properly it can cause lots of problems.

And of course that's just my take on it.

Thansk
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by David B

I find I have the best angle on a steal at 3rd from B and it keeps me closer to first.

I see too many guys in C making the call at first from position C. They incorrectly stay put and don't move closer to first, or move to get the best angle possible. Ball hit to F5, the umpire in C has a horrible angle on the throw unless he moves. Same with ball hit to F6, or if F6 is charging a short hop.

Position C can be a good position, but as with other positions, if not worked on and used properly it can cause lots of problems.

I don't see how you can have a better angle of a steal of 3rd from around B, than from busting in and toward the line from C. Yes, if you just stand there and don't move from C, you aren't going to be in proper position. When I say I prefer C, it is as starting position only. If you don't hustle from any starting position you won't be in the right place for your calls.

If you are in B with a runner stealing third, you are a long way from the tag play at third, and why do you feel the need to be closer to first base? The only play is the steal of third. If R2 is running on the pitch, you don't go with him do you? You wait to see the play develop. If the batter takes the pitch or swings and misses, you move in and toward the line on an angle and let F2's throw turn you into the play. If the batter hits the ball, then you don't go with the runner, but react to the batted ball. I guess I just don't see why you want to hang around B if a solo runner is stealing 3rd.

You need to be able to read and react to each situation as it occurs. A sharply hit ball will require different movement than a slow roller to the same fielder does. The trick is staying out of the fielder's throwing lanes and his way in general, while getting good angles and distance for your calls.

Like you said, if you don't hustle and work hard at proper positioning, C can be a problem. Like in your example of making the call at first from C. You're right, that is incorrect and lazy positioning. But if you've spent your whole career using both B and C, know how to hustle, get good angles, and have got it down pat, it works just fine.

[David B]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

Like you said, if you don't hustle and work hard at proper positioning, C can be a problem. Like in your example of making the call at first from C. You're right, that is incorrect and lazy positioning. But if you've spent your whole career using both B and C, know how to hustle, get good angles, and have got it down pat, it works just fine.

And that's the main problem that I've seen with guys in C. Most are lazy and end up out of position more than not. There are very few plays at third, (5% I believe was the latest that I've seen) and many more plays at first. I like for my umpires to be closer to the play at first and its almost impossible to be out of position in B.

As far as the steal at third, you are just as close to the call from B as you are C. Like I said, its personal preference, but from B you see the whole play develop, from C you don't see the whole play, its impossible with your back to the runner.

I think you said it best though, the good umpire will do fine from either spot. The problem is with the many not so good umpires. (g)

thanks
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

David,

How do you figure to be "just as close" from B on a steal of third? From C, I can tell when the runner is going. I peek over my right shoulder, as I was taught. I'm only going to get 3 or 4 steps at best, on an angle in and toward the line. But I end up about 20 feet from 3rd. From B, you are still only going to get a few steps, and be 50+ feet from the play. That isn't just as close.

I have never heard of the mechanic for 2nd base only in B. I have never seen anyone position themselves in B with 2nd base only.

There were a few umpires back around 1990 in my association who tried to get everybody to use B with runners at 1st and 2nd, and that went over like a lead balloon. That idea was quickly scrapped, and I haven't heard of it since.