R1 steals to second base-another bad call

[Gre144]

I think I blew another call with R1 stealing to second. Any suggestions on how to get it right when there is a close play at second on a steal from first base? (Should I get down on one knee,or should I have my knees bent with my hands on them? Should I look at where the tag is or just call it how I see it? If its a close play and I'm am not sure myself, should I call him out or safe?)

[Edited by Gre144 on Jun 23rd, 2001 at 10:43 AM]

I f you only have R1 then you should be in "B" from there drift toward second watching the throw from the plate. Turn with the ball or a little ahead on get set to make the call. Hands on knees is good if you can get it but most don't. Don't get too close or it will blow up on you. Watch the tag and foot then call what you got. As they say in school when doubt get an out.
It sounds like you are getting too close or you are turning too late which means you are still moving. Make sure you're stopped, the extra two steps aren't worth it.Ask your partner to keep an eye on your mechanic at second because you're probably moving and don't realize it.

[ump0001]

All i could tell you is relax when making calls like that, once you are relaxed you will see everything much clearer

[joemoore]

I find the level of arguing and complaining goes up not because of the quality of the calls you make, but because of the situation and competitiveness involved.

Get a good look at it, make sure you're set, make your call. Reward good play if you're not sure. If the throw is there, give the fielder the benefit of the doubt, if the throw is off, or the tag is high , or the fielders were sleeping, lean toward giving the runner the edge.

Don't be so quick to second guess yourself. Whatever happened there was something that made you lean one way or the other. If it was getting back at a coach, or gauging which fans were least likely to disagree, then that's blowing the call. If you made your best honest guess based on what you saw, then you are sure of yourself, you nailed the call.

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by Gre144
I think I blew another call with R1 stealing to second. Any suggestions on how to get it right when there is a close play at second on a steal from first base? (Should I get down on one knee,or should I have my knees bent with my hands on them? Should I look at where the tag is or just call it how I see it? If its a close play and I'm am not sure myself, should I call him out or safe?)

[Edited by Gre144 on Jun 23rd, 2001 at 10:43 AM]

A lot of the young guys I train have trouble with this play because they are simply out of position for the call - - even though they think they are in position!

You need to be at a perfect 90 degrees to the sliding runner for a tag play. Position B already sets you up in a poor position - from behind the play. Behind the play, no matter how slight, is the worst place for such a tag play.

When you turn with the ball toward the play, make sure you move, quite quickly, to that 90 degree position. Don't get caught behind the play no matter how slight. The ball will take you to the play, but your feet must take you into position.

Angle first, then distance.

[Ump20]

Originally posted by Gre144
I think I blew another call with R1 stealing to second. Any suggestions on how to get it right when there is a close play at second on a steal from first base? (Should I get down on one knee,or should I have my knees bent with my hands on them? Should I look at where the tag is or just call it how I see it? If its a close play and I'm am not sure myself, should I call him out or safe?)

[Edited by Gre144 on Jun 23rd, 2001 at 10:43 AM]

You may need to do a better job "selling" your calls. If the throw beats the runner (people are expecting an out call) and the runner is clearly under the tag add something like "Safe, he's under the tag". Avoid the temptation to be too close to first base for the possible pick-off and as Jim Porter advises let the throw take you into the play. The closer the play -- the slower the call as you develop the picture.

[kchamp]

This I read somewhere, so I can't take the credit, but it helps me with tag plays. Focus on the slowest moving component of the tag play. The fastest component is the thrown ball, followed by the swiping tag. The slowest component is the sliding foot (or hand). If you focus in on this and just be aware of the timing of the tag, you'll be looking at things that the human eye can actually see. Helps me.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Gre144
I think I blew another call with R1 stealing to second. Any suggestions on how to get it right when there is a close play at second on a steal from first base?

First off you said close play, which to me means a banger. In that case you are not going to please everybody so that means one side will give the oo's and ahs and the other side will say good call blue. That's the nature of the business.

Jim P has given you the proper and taught mechanic for this type of play. Now you have to sell it, so you seem sure of your call.

NOTE: If you are going to make a call opposite of what everybody expects - give more details of the call. Ie; Ball is in time to get runner but tag is up high. Now in addition to the safe call as someone else mentioned, you also say "under the tag" or if it's a swiping type of tag and F4 or F6 misses the runner say "He missed the tag".

Conversely, if it appears the runner is safe and you make the out call, point to the area in which the runner was tagged. You see PRO umpires do this all the time. With there left hand they point to the tagged area and then ring up the runner with their right hand.

IMO the more information about a call we can give the better. Also, you must learn to SELL a call even if you are unsure. If a coach senses an unsureness about your call, he / she will be on you like a chicken on a worm for not only that call but future close calls. Do not give them that amunition.

As far as blowing a call we all do. The important thing is not to dwell on it so that it effects your next call. Learn from your mistake and improve the next time.

Pete Booth

[Gre144]

Conversely, if it appears the runner is safe and you make the out call, point to the area in which the runner was tagged. You see PRO umpires do this all the time. With there left hand they point to the tagged area and then ring up the runner with their right hand.


Pete Booth [/B][/QUOTE]

Well today, I called a runner out sliding to second who was tagged on the shoulder. No complaints from anyone because he was tagged before he reached the base even though the tag was high. I don't think where a person gets tagged tells you much about if he is safe or out. What is important is if the tag was put on him before he got to the base. Maybe I'm wrong but I think I blew my call a couple of days ago because I saw a high tag so I instinctively called him safe even though everyone else thought he was out by a mile. Could you explain in more detail how you think the positioning of the tag helps you to determine if the runner is out or safe? The method for looking where the tag was placed has not helped me much. Just my opinion.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Gre144

Could you explain in more detail how you think the positioning of the tag helps you to determine if the runner is out or safe? The method for looking where the tag was placed has not helped me much.

First off using Jim P's advice you should be in the optimal position - 90% angle to make the call. Now most people will see the runner slide in safely - not knowing where the actual tag took place.

In your example, you said the tag was on the shoulder, so by pointing with your left hand indicating that a tag had occured, and then ringing up the runner with the right hand - you displayed to everyone that even though the runner appears to be safe the tag actually occured before he touched the base.

In general, runners appear to be safe when the tag isn't directly or right on the bag - in other words the throw is off line a bit. In those instances you watch the tag and where the runners foot is at that time. That's why I find it useful to point, indicating that there was indeed a tag before the runner touched the base.

In a way it's no different than the tag play at first. You watch the ball leave the fielders hand and then pick up the position of F3 and the runner. On this play most umpires point with their left hand indicating that there was a tag.

As mentioned, the more information we give when a call is opposite to what people expect the better.

Pete Booth

[Carl Childress]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Porter

A lot of the young guys I train have trouble with this play because they are simply out of position for the call - - even though they think they are in position!

You need to be at a perfect 90 degrees to the sliding runner for a tag play. Position B already sets you up in a poor position - from behind the play. Behind the play, no matter how slight, is the worst place for such a tag play.
(snip)
Angle first, then distance.

Jim:

I couldn't have said it better myself.

That's why I recommend that the umpire with R1 belongs in C! Try it.

You'll note that you have a much better ANGLE on the pick-off at first.

You'll note that with runners on the corner you stand in C, so you've no objection to calling a pick-off at first from the C position.

You'll note that you have a perfect ANGLE on the steal of second: A simple pivot allows you to look between the runner and the base, not over his shoulder.

You'll note that in a season, 75% of the MLB plays the camera judges were called wrong occurred on a steal of second when U2 chose B with R1.

Regards:

[Rich]

....I've found that position B does put you in the best position for one thing on that steal of second -- the swipe tag by F4/F6 from behind R1 on that wide throw (to the plate side).

However, when I work three or four man and I'm the guy at second making the call, I ALWAYS work deep C. Carl is right -- having the play open to you rather than having the throw turn you is much preferable.

(Another) However, most associations are going to want you in B, so let's talk position B.

It is crucial that you are in the right position, equidistant between the mound and second base. Many umpires set up too far in towards the plate or too far towards first base.

If there is a pickoff to first, your step should be FORWARD towards the plate, not towards first. I use one big step forward with my left foot, on which heel I then turn. Step and turn on my heel. Nothing more. Unless the runner was leaning and still "swimming" for the base coming back or unless he has a massive coronary and dies before returning to first, you will likely call the runner safe. Chalk this up as a limitation of the two-man system.

If there is a steal of second, try to get two or three quick, large backwards steps towards the base before the ball reaches (and turns) you. After the ball turns you and before the fielder catches the ball, come set.

In most cases, if the ball beats the runner and the glove is put down, the runner should be called out. Unless the fielder makes a horrible tag or if it is obvious that the runner made a heroic effort in avoiding the tag (hook sliding to the back of the base, for example), make the out call.

Rich
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[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

You'll note that in a season, 75% of the MLB plays the camera judges were called wrong occurred on a steal of second when U2 chose B with R1.

Regards:

Very interesting statistic. It only becomes meaningful if we know the percentage of MLB umpires who make the call from B rather than C. If 75% of MLB umpires make the call from B then one would expect that 75% of the misses would be from B. OTOH, if 90% of MLB umpires make the call from B, but only 75% of the misses are from B, then B is, in fact, the superior position.

The 75% statistic that you quote implies that B is the inferior position. That is true, if and only if, less than 75% of MLB umpires work from the B position when calling out steals from first.

BTW, I happen to agree with Carl's conclusion. I only wish that we had complete statistics to back it up.

Peter

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by His High Holiness
Originally posted by Carl Childress

Very interesting statistic. It only becomes meaningful if we know the percentage of MLB umpires who make the call from B rather than C. If 75% of MLB umpires make the call from B then one would expect that 75% of the misses would be from B. OTOH, if 90% of MLB umpires make the call from B, but only 75% of the misses are from B, then B is, in fact, the superior position.

The 75% statistic that you quote implies that B is the inferior position. That is true, if and only if, less than 75% of MLB umpires work from the B position when calling out steals from first.

BTW, I happen to agree with Carl's conclusion. I only wish that we had complete statistics to back it up.

Peter

---

I have no figures to back up my three-quarters "guess-timate." Let me say it accurately: It's been my experience that of the calls missed by major league umpires -- as evidenced by instant replay -- a very high percentage are at second base and made by umpires who started in Position B. Looking over the shoulder seems not so good to me as looking between the runner and the bag.

Except for one unusual association, I have never called with a three-man crew where U3 went to the B side. Everyone -- I thought -- likes the 90-degree angle.

I'm glad you agree with my figures even if my statistics may be faulty.

[BJ Moose]

And then, some work in the real world of high level amateur baseball (kids that shave).

Let's follow the career of the ambitious umpire working his way up the political ladder of his large association. Lets watch him make 1st base pickoff calls from "C" with R1 only. It won't matter a hoot if they are RIGHT or WRONG... all we know is the managers will notice the umpire a mile away from the play and hoot and hollar and have a spastic fit. And after hearing that "I have a better angle", will be tossed due to their expletive deleted response.

And our hero will work 1 or 2 more Senior Babe or Connie Mack games... then, mysteriously, will only find himself assigned to 1 man Bronco games in OuterEastJesus. Have you ever seen the Mom's in OuterEastJesus? Yee gods....

Originally posted by Carl Childress
That's why I recommend that the umpire with R1 belongs in C! Try it.

You'll note that you have a much better ANGLE on the pick-off at first.