Dealing with your partner

[official88]

I am a 3rd year umpire, youth leagues and high school, and on several occaisions, when my position is the Plate Umpire, I have had "veteran" partners who just seem to take control right from the meeting with the caoches at home plate. Being the "newer kid on the block" I'm not sure how to handle these guys. As the man behind the dish, I feel that is I who should run the meeting at the plate and have the coaches address any concerns to me. I don't wish to insult anyone, but how do I go about telling these partners that they should let it be my "show"? Any advice would be appreciated.

[PAblue87]

These are probably the same guys who think they now it all, or they use the improper mechanics. The best advice is to simply grin and bear it. You do not want to step on any toes, these guys will mumble and groan and talk behind your back. Simply, do your job. If you are a good umpire the right people will notice, like coaches and assignors. Then you won't even have to worry about working with these guys.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by official88
I am a 3rd year umpire, youth leagues and high school, and on several occaisions, when my position is the Plate Umpire, I have had "veteran" partners who just seem to take control right from the meeting with the caoches at home plate. Being the "newer kid on the block" I'm not sure how to handle these guys. As the man behind the dish, I feel that is I who should run the meeting at the plate and have the coaches address any concerns to me. I don't wish to insult anyone, but how do I go about telling these partners that they should let it be my "show"? Any advice would be appreciated.

Likely my method wouldn't work for you. In my early years after such an incident I simply told the Grizzled Veteran to "fork off!"
Many clinicians believe the answer lies in a good pregame conference, where the less-experienced official initiates the topics and makes it clear he will handle the pregame meeting with the coaches. I don't favor that because lots of GV's don't want to participate in a pregame conference: "Hey, kid, I've been doing this for a long time, ok? I'll be where I'm supposed to be. Just be sure you cover your ass!" (That's Blunder #44 in my book, 51 Ways to Ruin a Baseball Game.)

It's the postgame conference where I think the freshman can make his mark. Every GV loves to tell the newbie exactly what he did wrong -- in detail. (And frankly, what he says in that conference will probably be of great use and benefit to you.) Then, when he's done ragging and/or complimenting, depending on the mood in the car/bar, you will:

1. Ask: "How did I do when I conducted the pregame meeting with the coaches? Oh, oops, YOU did that, didn't you?" Yuk, yuk. Blah, blah.

OR:

2. Say: "GV, I see I have a lot to learn. And the next time we call together, I'm gonna start by taking charge at the pregame meeting. I want you to listen quietly so we can talk about it after the game. I'm gonna have a lot of partners who don't do this as well as you." Yuk, yuk. Blah, blah.

Now arrives your next date as partners, and GV repeats his obnoxious behavior that says: "I'm in charge."

Afterwards, in the postgame conference, when he's said everything he wants to say, you say: "GV, I'm glad you think I improved." (He will say you improved; after all, you've had the benefit of his previous instruction.) "But again I didn't get to handle the pregame meeting. Now we work together again on the 14th, and I want you to let me handle it that time. If you start talking, I'm just going to say: 'Excuse me, but I'm the plate umpire and so let's get it set right away who is the UIC. If you have a problem, gentlemen, come to me!' I can't ever hope to be as good as you if I don't get a chance to make my own mistakes." Yuk, yuk. Blah, blah.

Your words may vary, of course, but it's the intent of the conversations that matters.

There are a few umpires who never learn, who always plan to be in charge. Then, there are some who take charge by force of habit and only need a gentle nudge to bring them up short.

The main idea: Discuss the "pregame meeting" during your "postgame conference." Do that with each of the GV's as you work your way through the association this coming season. When you come across one of those who won't/can't change, know this: Someday, you'll be in that spot, and you can decide which kind of GV you're going to be.

Frankly, I always needed the "gentle shove" -- from my second year on.

[Ump20]

Originally posted by official88
I am a 3rd year umpire, youth leagues and high school, and on several occaisions, when my position is the Plate Umpire, I have had "veteran" partners who just seem to take control right from the meeting with the caoches at home plate. Being the "newer kid on the block" I'm not sure how to handle these guys. As the man behind the dish, I feel that is I who should run the meeting at the plate and have the coaches address any concerns to me. I don't wish to insult anyone, but how do I go about telling these partners that they should let it be my "show"? Any advice would be appreciated.

The way you describe it I think your partners are wrong. As “veterans” they may consider it important to support you by showing a “take charge” attitude but the plate umpire should be in charge of the plate conference. I might suggest getting to the park at least 20 minutes before game time especially if the plate is “assigned” rather than determined by a coin flip. Have a pre-game conference with your BU that includes what you’ll discuss at the plate conference. You might ask your partner for any keys he can give you about the coaches’ strategies. For example maybe one coach likes to squeeze with the bottom of the order. The other coach might like to steal especially early in the game. At the plate conference the PU should stand in foul territory behind the plate and the BU directly in front of the plate. You might also try involving your partner or at least giving him the opportunity with something to the effect “Joe, do you have anything to add?”

My wife had a needlepoint hanging when my son was younger that said, “There are two things you have to provide your children, one is roots and the other wings”. I think roots and wings pertain as well to newer umpires. Umpire training works best when you have responsible mentors that will allow you to do what you are expected to do.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by official88
I am a 3rd year umpire, youth leagues and high school, and on several occaisions, when my position is the Plate Umpire, I have had "veteran" partners who just seem to take control right from the meeting with the caoches at home plate. Being the "newer kid on the block" I'm not sure how to handle these guys. As the man behind the dish, I feel that is I who should run the meeting at the plate and have the coaches address any concerns to me. I don't wish to insult anyone, but how do I go about telling these partners that they should let it be my "show"? Any advice would be appreciated.

By the time you are in your 3rd Year these guys should realise that you have at least enough experience to conduct your own plate meetings. I'm not as understanding about this attitude you are dealing with as apparently the others are who have already answered your question.

I would handle your problem in this way:

1. Don't embarrass your partner by pulling him up short in front of the coaches - 2 wrongs won't make a right.

2. When the coaches leave the meeting, call your partner aside for a brief one-on-one discussion - and I DO mean brief.

3. You can say to this guy, "Look, I know you're the senior guy here, and you are only trying to help, but that was supposed to be a 'Plate' meeting and I'm supposed to be the 'Plate Umpire'. Please let me take it next time, ok? If I've missed anything, I'll be happy to have you jump in with all your experience, but I've got to be allowed to start the ball rolling or I'll get no respect from these guys. (pause for reaction) Have a good game, buddy. Let's do it and have some fun, eh?" (BIG smile)

4. After checking his face for any reaction, and giving him your cheery good wishes and a parting smile, turn around and head for the plate to start the game.

5. If you get the chance, make sure you give him the old "Great call, partner" signal if you can. (That's one fist on top of the other in a hammering motion). A little wide-eyed appreciation never goes astray! (grin)

• You have told him nicely how you felt about his overbearing attitude.
• You have told him nicely to give you your due.
• You have let him know you won't be walked over.
• You have given him at least a half inning to consider the sense in what you've asked.
• You have given him every opportunity to take it all in the right spirit.
  

No-one respects an official who is too meek to stand up for himself. If you do it politely, and in a friendly and appreciative manner, no reasonable official can object to your request to run your own show. Some may suggest that this approach won't work if this guy has some input into your advancement. That depends on the guy. You're also not going to advance while such an official considers you can't even be trusted to run a plate meeting. I say you've got nothing to lose if you go about it the right way.

Just my $AUD0.05c worth. Good luck.

Cheers,

[Ump20]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

By the time you are in your 3rd Year these guys should realise that you have at least enough experience to conduct your own plate meetings. I'm not as understanding about this attitude you are dealing with as apparently the others are who have already answered your question...

No-one respects an official who is too meek to stand up for himself. If you do it politely, and in a friendly and appreciative manner, no reasonable official can object to your request to run your own show. Some may suggest that this approach won't work if this guy has some input into your advancement. That depends on the guy. You're also not going to advance while such an official considers you can't even be trusted to run a plate meeting. I say you've got nothing to lose if you go about it the right way.

Just my $AUD0.05c worth. Good luck.

Cheers,

Warren made some solid recommendations on dealing with a situation you should not be in. I wonder how much of this behavior is dictated by how you conduct yourself and how much these "veteran partners" are at fault. You mentioned umpiring 3 years but did you just move up a level or have you been there for awhile? Also, how do the other officials with your experience feel they are treated by these same partners? I am not wavering about their treatment but just trying to help your perspective so you can take the advice given by others and mold it to your strategy for taking control and advancing further. Jim/NY

[JJ]

Ump20 had a GREAT suggestion - when the newbie is "done" with HIS pregame at homeplate, he should ask the GV, "Anything to add"?. I AM a GV and I always ask my partner - even if he is a newbie - "Anything to add"? My addled brain being what it is, I regularly forget things we talked about at the car that should be brought up at homeplate (the tree in left center, the chalked-off photographer's line, the bullpen in live ball territory, etc.). You don't get good by yourself!

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by official88

"I am a 3rd year umpire, youth leagues and high school, and on several occaisions, when my position is the Plate Umpire, I have had "veteran" partners who just seem to take control right from the meeting with the coaches at home plate".

I am a 4th year ump and personally I do not care if a VET takes control at home plate or not. Your performance on the field is most important. Since you are the PU, after the VET gives his speech, you are in control from that point on anyhow . As you get more and more games and the coaches notice who you are, that's when you will get the ultimate recognition.


Pete Booth

[BJ Moose]

Originally posted by official88
when my position is the Plate Umpire, I have had "veteran" partners who just seem to take control right from the meeting with the caoches at home plate As the man behind the dish, I feel that is I who should run the meeting at the plate and have the coaches address any concerns to me.

Third year ain't new. And those GVs are full of @#% and need to be taken to task.

I can't imagine the guys so crusty that they won't allow a pregame. But @#% em. YOU do a pregame and you tell them matter of factly that the plate meeting is yours to conduct and they are to keep their pieholes shut, until you say, "Bobo, anything we missed?" at the conclusion YOUR plate meeting.

This is very high on my list of "50 Ways to Piss Off Your Partner."

This is assuming, of course, that you have the ability and knowledge to conduct a proper and professional plate meeting. I assume you do.. these Crusty guys just like to hear themselves talk.

Wow 88.. ONE POST... with some of the BS nonsense going on in other threads... I would expect a new guy to get scared off.

Mike Branch
aka Brainless
Member
EWS

[BenGilli]

I can't believe that you have 'veteren' umpires taking charge like that. In my association, at least one meeting is spent on the proper way to conduct a pre-game meeting. They feel that if you are behind the plate and the umpire in chief then you are the one conducting the meeting.. Im just starting my second year with my association, and last year I did many pre-game meetings.. you're free to come join with us!

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by official88
I am a 3rd year umpire, youth leagues and high school, and on several occaisions, when my position is the Plate Umpire, I have had "veteran" partners who just seem to take control right from the meeting with the caoches at home plate. Being the "newer kid on the block" I'm not sure how to handle these guys. As the man behind the dish, I feel that is I who should run the meeting at the plate and have the coaches address any concerns to me. I don't wish to insult anyone, but how do I go about telling these partners that they should let it be my "show"? Any advice would be appreciated.

official88,

It is possible that your body language says that you look apprehensive about the plate conference, and that you seem nervous or searching for words. Make sure you have a well-rehearsed, confident, and to-the-point plate conference prepared. Know what you're going to say and how you're going to say it. Preparedness will give you more confidence.

Another possibility is that, you have gotten accustomed to these guys taking over, and they have gotten accustomed to taking over for you. When the plate meeting comes around, you probably look at your partner. Don't do that. That's a cue to your partner for him to take over for you.

There are some umpires who get stage fright at the plate meeting. Veterans are always taking charge for these chaps. They're everywhere at the lower levels - and you said you work youth league. The more experienced umpires at these levels are in the habit of taking charge because, if they don't, no one will.

Finally, if you are truly taking charge, a veteran partner shouldn't even have a chance to take over. As soon as you arrive at the park, know you are in charge. Meet with your partner and tell HIM when your pre-game conference will be. Conduct the pre-game conference with your partner. Hit mechanics points, and coverage, etc.

By the time the plate meeting rolls around, your partner will already know that he ain't gonna have to take over for you.

Don't be afraid. Take charge. Just don't be a tyrant.

[Whowefoolin]

Same thing happens with me. I have learned to get the GV before the game and let him know what is going to happen. I am polite and when I bring up the subject of everything I subtly make sure that I am letting him know it is me that will be doing the talking.

Now you have problems of the GV who is already on the field sitting in the dugout with his old coach friends laughing and joking. Immediately you can tell what you are getting for a partner.

And if the guy takes charge of the plate at the pre-game meeting, usually you know that that is the only thing he will take charge of! He will bark out the things at the plate, but never be at fault in the field.

And the last type I have seen is the one who doesn't even attend the meeting. He already knows everything. It is below him to do this. Now you know his attitude.

So the pre-game meeting, in some ways, can be an asset if you recognize the symptoms of the partner your getting before the first pitch.

What can you do? Just make sure you never do any of those things if you become a mentor. I, for one, can not understand how someone who umpires not wanting to be excited about it and have fun.

Max

[David B]

I know that we don't want to carry a list of things to discuss on the field; however, in your pregame make a list of things that you would like to discuss with your (veteran) partner.

Chances are that he will not want to discuss some basic things, but by you asking about where he will be in situations, calls of fair foul, checked swings, coverage, he will be more aware perhaps that you are working hard at becoming a better official.

Also, this might make you more comfortable as Jim P. suggested and maybe appear more in charge.

I am a believer in lists, I keep one in my bag and I review it before walking on the field.

Also another, is to tell your partner, I will be discussing (and name them) with the coaches in the pre-game conf, if I forget would you help me remember to ask about ....

Good luck

Thanks
David

[rex]

There are two sides to every coin.

Being the Old _art that I am with a very graybeard. Often times when I'm working with a youngen that doesn't look as though he's in high school yet. The manager thinks because I'm old and gray I know what I'm doing (Boy are they in for a big surprise) and the younger is just a Rook.

It doesn't make any difference to them that the kid has more talent than I'll ever have with all my sweat equity. They just look at the age.

So adjust your cup and say. "What are you taking to him for I'm in charge?" Betcha the manager won't do it a second time. (Same goes for your partner)

rex