The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 24, 2017, 08:41am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Out or continue at bat?

NFHS Baseball Rules.

B1 is at bat with a x-2 count. B1 squares to bunt and holds the bat, motionless, in the strike zone. F1's pitch strikes the bat on the knob and ball eventually becomes a foul ball. Is B1 out?

What say you?

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 24, 2017, 10:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 537
Out, of course. The definition of a bunt:

2-8-1: A bunt is a fair ball in which the batter does not swing to hit the ball, but holds the bat in the path of the ball to tap it slowly to the infield. If an attempt to bunt is a foul ball, it is treated the same as any other foul ball, except that if the attempt is by a batter who has two strikes, such batter is out as in 7-4-1e.

By holding the bat motionless, was he holding the bat in the path of the ball? That's exactly what he did - it couldn't have hit the bat if it wasn't in the path of the ball. Now if he tried to pull it back or give SOME indication that he was taking evasive action? Different story. But if he's just going to stand there like a goof? Learn to bunt better, enjoy your short walk back to the dugout.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 24, 2017, 07:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrounge View Post
Out, of course. The definition of a bunt:

2-8-1: A bunt is a fair ball in which the batter does not swing to hit the ball, but holds the bat in the path of the ball to tap it slowly to the infield. If an attempt to bunt is a foul ball, it is treated the same as any other foul ball, except that if the attempt is by a batter who has two strikes, such batter is out as in 7-4-1e.

By holding the bat motionless, was he holding the bat in the path of the ball? That's exactly what he did - it couldn't have hit the bat if it wasn't in the path of the ball. Now if he tried to pull it back or give SOME indication that he was taking evasive action? Different story. But if he's just going to stand there like a goof? Learn to bunt better, enjoy your short walk back to the dugout.
The ball hit the bat. On the knob. No way was it an attempt to tap the ball.

Foul ball.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 24, 2017, 10:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: NeverNeverLand
Posts: 1,036
Are we all this bored?

Mr DeNucci, please read ur other OP, illegal player!
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 24, 2017, 11:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Eastern Connecticut
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
The ball hit the bat. On the knob. No way was it an attempt to tap the ball.

Foul ball.
Unless he was holding the bat by the barrel!

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 07:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
NFHS Baseball Rules.

B1 is at bat with a x-2 count. B1 squares to bunt and holds the bat, motionless, in the strike zone. F1's pitch strikes the bat on the knob and ball eventually becomes a foul ball. Is B1 out?

What say you?
There's some element of HTBT in this. If the ball had barely missed the bat -- would the umpire have judged it to be a strike (on the "swing")? If so, then it's an out. Otherwise it's just a foul ball.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 06:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
The ball hit the bat. On the knob. No way was it an attempt to tap the ball.

Foul ball.
And if the same ball hit the same bat on the same knob and shot out into fair territory, what are you going to call then? Foul ball?

The situation described in the OP is very simple--batter is OUT. Attempt and intention has nothing to do with it.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 08:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaincoach View Post
And if the same ball hit the same bat on the same knob and shot out into fair territory, what are you going to call then? Foul ball? No - it's a batted ball - play it.

The situation described in the OP is very simple--batter is OUT. Attempt and intention has nothing to do with it. It does on a bunt because you are out on a "3rd strike" bunt that goes foul but not on just a plain batted ball that goes foul. A bunt is a batted ball INTENTIONALLY MET. No intent, no bunt.
Still a batted ball.
Understand the difference.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong

Last edited by Rich Ives; Sun Jun 25, 2017 at 08:08pm.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 08:47pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SE PA
Posts: 768
Intent requires the exercise of judgment.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 09:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Understand the difference.
Can you quote that in the rule book? The "intention" part? Just trying to learn here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
Intent requires the exercise of judgment.
Agreed. If a player presents a bat over the plate and makes no attempt whatsoever to pull back or disengage from the pitch, that's quite a bit of intent.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 09:40pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaincoach View Post
Can you quote that in the rule book? The "intention" part? Just trying to learn here.



Agreed. If a player presents a bat over the plate and makes no attempt whatsoever to pull back or disengage from the pitch, that's quite a bit of intent.
In softball, that's enough intent. In baseball, it's not.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 09:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaincoach View Post
Can you quote that in the rule book? The "intention" part? Just trying to learn here.
It's only an out if the ball is bunted foul with two strikes. The definition of bunt is that the ball is intentionally met with the bat. Any other contact with the bat is played fair or foul as the case may be.
__________________
"I don't think I'm very happy. I always fall asleep to the sound of my own screams...and then I always get woken up to the sound of my own screams. Do you think I'm unhappy?"
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 09:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 5
dont think intent has anything to do with it. Have you ever seen a batter duck from a pitch and have it hit his bat. It happens all the time, most cases a foul ball but certainly no intent to hit the ball.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 10:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek007 View Post
dont think intent has anything to do with it. Have you ever seen a batter duck from a pitch and have it hit his bat. It happens all the time, most cases a foul ball but certainly no intent to hit the ball.
See my post above yours.
__________________
"I don't think I'm very happy. I always fall asleep to the sound of my own screams...and then I always get woken up to the sound of my own screams. Do you think I'm unhappy?"
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 26, 2017, 12:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek007 View Post
dont think intent has anything to do with it. Have you ever seen a batter duck from a pitch and have it hit his bat. It happens all the time, most cases a foul ball but certainly no intent to hit the ball.
It matters on a bunt. See my response above.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do you continue? JetMetFan Basketball 17 Sat Oct 12, 2013 05:50am
Cancel or Continue??? ABC Coach Basketball 10 Mon May 17, 2010 12:07am
Continue the count? Ref in PA Basketball 13 Wed Dec 05, 2007 02:11am
Continue play or not? dumbref Football 14 Tue Nov 23, 2004 09:47pm
Five fouls and allowed to continue. mick Basketball 23 Mon Jan 26, 2004 02:33pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:50am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1