Another libero replacement question.

[Scrapper1]

Let's say the libero is in the 5 position, and there is a rotation, and the libero's spot to serve is next. The libero is not required to come out of the lineup, but is allowed to immediately replace the player in the 1 spot. I don't have my book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure I'm right about that.

When this happens, there's a weird replacement/substitution sequence that occurs. One player enters the court from the bench, and one of the non-libero players leaves the court. This is not done as a regular substitution, when I've seen it. Everybody just says, "It's for the libero" and the players make the exchange without using the substitution area.

Is there technically a substitution taking place? Should a sub be recorded on the scoresheet? What is actually happening when this occurs? L (would be the new 4-spot) replaces the new 1-spot. A player comes on to fill the 4-spot. How is it tracked on the libero tracking sheet?

I'm sure it's legal, because everybody does it and no ref ever objects. I just don't understand it when I see it.

[bob jenkins]

The assistant scorekeeper (libero tracker) enters it as two entries: 4 re-entering for the libero and the libero entering for 1. The scorekeeper enters nothing, because it's not one of the 12 allowed (ncaa-w) substitutions.

[Back In The Saddle]

Imagine if you will:

• The L replaces #24
• When L is in the 5 spot, they get a side out and are to rotate
• #13 is in the 2 spot, and will be rotating to 1
• The L wants to serve in that spot in the rotation

They could execute this little maneuver using "longhand" -- #24 replaces L who comes off the court; L then replaces #13 who leaves the court.

Instead, they do it "shorthand" -- #24 returns to the court, #13 leaves the court, L does the quickstep to 1 to serve

Either way, it is exactly the same result: two libero replacements in the same dead ball. Bob was spot on in how the libero tracker records it, and in how the scorekeeper doesn't.

[refnrev]

BITS,
I want to play devil's advocate here for a minute. How exactly do you get a side out with rally scoring? There's no such thing as a side out anymore.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by refnrev

BITS,
I want to play devil's advocate here for a minute. How exactly do you get a side out with rally scoring? There's no such thing as a side out anymore.

It's not easy. Only the best refs can pull it off.

Point taken. Technically I should have said something along the lines of LOR/point. However, in my defense, the term "side out" is still in use around here.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

However, in my defense, the term "side out" is still in use around here.

Here too, and I surmise that folks still use the term because (a) they're used to it ("old habits die hard"), and (b) it's more "volleyball" than "get the ball back!"

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

It's not easy. Only the best refs can pull it off.

Point taken. Technically I should have said something along the lines of LOR/point. However, in my defense, the term "side out" is still in use around here.

___________________

You hear it every game... players, coaches, fans, everyone! I wonder if they really stop to think about what they are saying.

[FMadera]

I don't think of it as a big deal.

I think side-out is used to refer to "the end of a team's term of service." I don't think it's meant to denote winning a rally without scoring a point.

I have a bigger problem with the terms "5-1" or "6-2" with teams that use a libero. Think about it...

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by FMadera

I don't think of it as a big deal.

I think side-out is used to refer to "the end of a team's term of service." I don't think it's meant to denote winning a rally without scoring a point.

I have a bigger problem with the terms "5-1" or "6-2" with teams that use a libero. Think about it...

My (admittedly limited) understanding is that 5-1 refers to the team having 5 hitters and 1 setter. But the unspoken implication is that not all 5 can actually be hitters at the same time, only the 2 or 3 in the front row. What am I missing?

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

My (admittedly limited) understanding is that 5-1 refers to the team having 5 hitters and 1 setter. But the unspoken implication is that not all 5 can actually be hitters at the same time, only the 2 or 3 in the front row. What am I missing?

The libero shouldn't be considered a hitting option.

[Retrozetti]

Originally Posted by FMadera

The libero shouldn't be considered a hitting option.

Felix, I couldn't agree more... and yet, I can't begin to count the times (almost always High School) that the setter sets the Libero, over and over. I swear, it's almost like they drill that play. As an observer, I think the coach is playing with fire, especially when that Libero jumps to attack the ball, because then I have to check for height of the ball at contact.

Hmm, Felix definitely has a point about the 5-1 and 6-2, but maybe we split the difference and call it "4 and a half-1" and "5 and a half-2"